Wake Up Call: Relationship with the Teacher
Writings | Basics
Writings | Basics


Interview with Ken McLeod, published in Mandala Magazine, June-August 2002. Reprinted with permission.
Finding and forming a relationship with a teacher is one of the most difficult aspects of the spiritual path. Many of us fell into teacher-student relationships at the end of the 1960s and in the early 70s. We were fortunate, very fortunate.
So many things need to come together: where one is in one’s life, whether the window for spiritual practice is opening or closing, the personalities of the two individuals involved, chance circumstances. I have no prescription for finding a teacher. Look, explore, interview, and, above all else, use your own good sense. Don’t rely on reputation alone.
Deep in Western culture, especially in America, is a tendency to look for perfection in our teachers. Tibetans don’t see their teachers the same way. I was at a conference with a number of Asian and Western teachers, and one of the Tibetan teachers said simply, “My teacher is Buddha.” It was very clear that he had no expectation that his ‘teacher’ was a perfect being but this was how he regarded the relationship, this was the source for his spiritual guidance and inspiration. It was a subtle point, not said with the usual rhetoric, and I found it very helpful.
My teacher, Kalu Rinpoche was highly accomplished, quite extraordinary. Did I learn everything he had to teach? Not even close. But he was my primary teacher. I’ve done a lot of guru yoga and similar practices with Kalu Rinpoche as the focus, and I don’t see any contradiction between seeing your teacher as Buddha as well as a human being. Remember, Buddha means to be awake. You have to see your teacher as being awake. If you don’t, why are you studying with him or her?
Question: Who are your teachers? Answer: My principal teacher was the late Kalu Rinpoche [1905-1989]. He was a senior meditation master of the Kagyu Tradition and holder of the Shangpa Kagyu lineage, who was living near Darjeeling, India when I met him in 1970. He was often asked by H.H. Dalai Lama and H.H. Karmapa to provide instruction on certain practices to groups of monks and practitioners, and he founded fifty Dharma centers around the world. He also established the first three-year retreat centers in the West. I undertook these long retreats twice, the last time ending in 1983. Another important teacher was Dezhung Rinpoche, a Sakya teacher who lived in Seattle for many years, and Jamgön Kongtrul III before he died. There have been a number of others, including Thrangu Rinpoche, Nyishöl Khenpo, and Gangteng Tulku. They were all Tibetans. A very good friend and I have been teacher and student to each other. He comes from another tradition, but we each had the approaches that freed up the other’s practice so we have spent the last 15 years exchanging our respective trainings. I also have a close relationship with a Zen practitioner. We have taught together in recent years. She brings a wealth of Zen and Vipassana training to our teaching. I learn a lot from her. So, while I teach others, I’m still a student.
A number of teachers, Asian and Western, have encountered personal difficulties that have developed into significant problems for their students. What can a teacher do to prevent such difficulties from damaging their relationship with students? I started teaching in the early 1980s when a handful of teachers — and their reputations — were going up in flames. The one characteristic they shared was that they were isolated from their own community. They had no feedback on their own behavior that they would listen to. So I always make a point of having someone in my life that I will listen to. I might not like what they are saying, but if we go back to the question whether you can travel this path on your own — no, you need that person. Everyone needs at least one person who can and will point out where you are not awake or present. I always have one or two people in my life from whom I have no secrets. I haven’t always enjoyed that, but it has been essential: since I have no secrets from them, I can have no secrets from me. The ultimate guru is your own mind but you are only able to learn from that guru when you are able to be present to some extent, and see through your own trips, your own projections. That doesn’t happen overnight. Basically you learn how to do that from hanging out with a person who is awake.
Question: Who are your teachers? Answer: My principal teacher was the late Kalu Rinpoche [1905-1989]. He was a senior meditation master of the Kagyu Tradition and holder of the Shangpa Kagyu lineage, who was living near Darjeeling, India when I met him in 1970. He was often asked by H.H. Dalai Lama and H.H. Karmapa to provide instruction on certain practices to groups of monks and practitioners, and he founded fifty Dharma centers around the world. He also established the first three-year retreat centers in the West. I undertook these long retreats twice, the last time ending in 1983. Another important teacher was Dezhung Rinpoche, a Sakya teacher who lived in Seattle for many years, and Jamgön Kongtrul III before he died. There have been a number of others, including Thrangu Rinpoche, Nyishöl Khenpo, and Gangteng Tulku. They were all Tibetans. A very good friend and I have been teacher and student to each other. He comes from another tradition, but we each had the approaches that freed up the other’s practice so we have spent the last 15 years exchanging our respective trainings. I also have a close relationship with a Zen practitioner. We have taught together in recent years. She brings a wealth of Zen and Vipassana training to our teaching. I learn a lot from her. So, while I teach others, I’m still a student.
Could you elaborate on these approaches?
Faith and respect in the teacher are important in the Tibetan tradition. What are your views on this topic?
How do you see the student-teacher relationship in the West and what kind of relationship do you have with your students?
In the Tibetan tradition, you are taught that you must obey your guru. How do you see this principle operating in the West?
How does your relationship with students work in practice?
Many students feel that they are violating the relationship if they leave their teacher. What are your thoughts on this?
Why is a teacher important?
A number of teachers, Asian and Western, have encountered personal difficulties that have developed into significant problems for their students. What can a teacher do to prevent such difficulties from damaging their relationship with students? I started teaching in the early 1980s when a handful of teachers — and their reputations — were going up in flames. The one characteristic they shared was that they were isolated from their own community. They had no feedback on their own behavior that they would listen to. So I always make a point of having someone in my life that I will listen to. I might not like what they are saying, but if we go back to the question whether you can travel this path on your own — no, you need that person. Everyone needs at least one person who can and will point out where you are not awake or present. I always have one or two people in my life from whom I have no secrets. I haven’t always enjoyed that, but it has been essential: since I have no secrets from them, I can have no secrets from me. The ultimate guru is your own mind but you are only able to learn from that guru when you are able to be present to some extent, and see through your own trips, your own projections. That doesn’t happen overnight. Basically you learn how to do that from hanging out with a person who is awake.