3. Awakening Through Reactivity

Introduction and opening prayers

The Alembic. 16 July, 2024

Kati: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to practicing the Diamond Sutra. It’s good to see you all again. Before we get started, does anyone have any logistical questions, Alembic questions for me? Okay. And everyone has the prayers. Malia, do you need prayers? You have prayers. All right. Okay, so without further ado, everyone. Ken.

Ken: That’s a way to introduce me … [unclear]. Let’s begin with the prayers.

Let my heart turn to practice.
Let practice become a path.
Let this path dissolve confusion.
Let confusion become wisdom.

Knowing there is nothing outside or inside to free me, I take sanctuary in buddha.
Knowing that experience and awareness are not two, I take sanctuary in dharma.
Knowing there is nothing to grasp or oppose, I take sanctuary in sangha.

Beings are numberless. May I free them all.
Reactions are endless. May I release them all.
Doors to experience our infinite. May I enter them all.
Ways of awakening are limitless. May I know them all.

Student experiences of reading the Diamond Sutra

Ken: There are a number of things I want to do before we dive in. I think we’ll do some bookkeeping first. I mentioned in the previous two classes that one of the generally overlooked but very important aspects of reading a sutra is to pay attention to what is happening in you as you read it. Now, how many of you have continued reciting the sutra on a daily basis? So how’s that going? Let’s start with you.

Student: This week’s been interesting. It’s been very dynamic. Earlier on in the week, I had an experience of a lot of compassion being awoken as I was reciting the sutra.

Ken: It just welled up.

Student: It just kind of welled up, and it was in response to what I was reading. I kind of felt the tragedy of all the suffering in light of the sutras. Then I experienced a lot of nihilism, another day. I was like, “Well, then what’s the point of all this?” And then later it became comical. Almost like like rugs were being pulled out and then put back later.

Ken: So did they move the rug or didn’t they?

Student: Yeah. Foolish people are attached. Yeah. Okay.

Ken: Maybe. Okay. Thank you. A couple of more people back here.

Student: So I’ve struggled with hearing myself, not having an understanding of how to read it necessarily. And I get caught up on … especially like “the Tathagata” and how to say that without the Tathagata.

Ken: It’s Tathagata. It’s pronounced “th.” It’s written T-H. It’s Tathagata.

Student: But I had an experience where, after reading for a while, I sort of slipped into a mode where I didn’t feel any of that self-consciousness reading, and it felt like it was reading me. And that didn’t last for too long. But like a few minutes where, I don’t know, I was like in with the text as I was reading it, and I’m curious what that experience was, or if it was just a flow state and I wasn’t thinking about it.

Ken: Well, the first thing I’m going to do is caution you against attaching to any experience that arises because, as you just heard, all kinds of things are going to arise. And I can’t tell you how, I don’t know. For the first five years of studying with my teacher, whenever I went to him, with some kind of experience, he always looked at me and said, “Not good, not bad, keep going. Not good, not bad, keep going.” In fact, we all knew that that’s what he was going to say whenever we went to see him. And that was frustrating. But it’s actually quite important. There’s another well known adage in the Tibetan tradition that meditation experiences are like alpine flowers in the spring, just all kinds of things blooming all over the place. And there’s ups and downs. There’s a short teaching text I translated. You’ll find it on my website. It’s under the title A Light in the Dark, and it says, “At this point, you’re going to have all kinds of ups and downs and just continue with your practice as if you’re on a long trip and you’re going through pleasant countries and dangerous countries,” and things like that. This is actually very important because all kinds of religions have been made out of people’s special experiences, but they turn out not to have any substance to them. And then it kind of looks a little silly at the end. And I don’t mean in any way to denigrate anything that you’re experiencing. This is just the way it is. Now, just as this gentleman was describing, sometimes there’s an up-welling of compassion. Where does that come from? And sometimes like, “What’s the point of all of this?” This is part of the purpose of reciting these things because it brings up or may elicit all kinds of experiences.

We’re getting used to just being present in whatever we are experiencing. And that’s part of the point of this exercise. And that is, in a certain sense, the beginning of non-attachment, if you see what I mean. Now, the other piece that you describe where it feels like the sutras reading you or however you put it, this is a little bit like, or comparable, let’s say, to the experience in meditation where the object comes to you rather than you going to the object. And it is a small indication that a different form of attention is beginning to develop. And this is very much a practice. Now, that is not something you can make happen. And this is another reason I caution against attaching to experiences, because as soon as you try to make any of this happen, then what you end up in is actually a performative practice, and that’s a really bad place to end up. Because then you’re just reinforcing a sense of self, if you see what I mean. So it happens, you slip into, what you’re terming the flow. It’s probably not an incorrect appellation. Okay. That’s nice. But the next time you do it, and it feels like you’re not in the flow at all, but you are driving rapidly over railway tracks. You’ve got to have the same attitude, if you see what I mean. Okay. Very good. Thank you. One more person who’s been playing with this. Okay. Up here.

Student: I really gave it my all this time. I read the whole thing every day. Some days I went for a walk and was reading it and thought I was crazy. I definitely had an emotional experience that changed and ebbed with it. But I found myself just wondering, like, “What am I doing?” Like “What is supposed to be?” Because when I sit, I think my sitting practice has evolved, and it’s a lot of time to sit and then do this. And yeah, my sitting practice has evolved where, yeah, something miraculous does not happen every time. But it is interesting to me each time I sit down to see how it evolves. And with this, toward the end of the week or last couple of days, I’m like, “Man, I’m a little frustrated. I don’t know where I’m going with this thing,” but definitely there are parts of, I won’t say, understanding. It was really confusing at first. And then now it’s like I’m used to it being that way, I don’t know.

Ken: So one level of expectation has dropped away.

Student: One. Just one though.

Ken: Well, today I hope to open a few doors so that …

Student: I’ve been waiting to come back and figure out, okay, where am I going with this?

Ken: Well, I don’t promise any great results, but okay.

Student: But I’m here for it.

Book recommendations

Ken: Okay, great. Thank you very much. Next item is bookkeeping. As I started to say about paying attention to what you’re experiencing as you read the sutra, this book is a commentary I wrote on the Heart Sutra longer than I want to mention, and it’s designed very, very much to elicit experience in you as you read it. Red Pine wrote a very nice commentary on the Heart Sutra, and going through all the academic and scholastic stuff, way better than I ever could. So when I saw that, I said, “Oh, good, I don’t have to do that. So I can just play.” And this is the result of that. And it’s something you might take a look at, because it really is in the spirit of what we’re doing. But it’s it’s all in straight English, without all the elaborate formalities and things like that. So it’s very approachable.

I was at a gathering at a friend’s birthday party on Sunday, and there’s a friend of mine there who’s a Zen teacher, and I asked him what his favorite translation of the Sutra of Huineng, which is going to come up. He’s the sixth patriarch, I think, in the Chan tradition in China. And he recommended that I pick up this book: The Diamond Sutra and the Sutra of Hui-Neng, or as it’s also known, I think, the Platform Sutra. And this was done in the 1930’s, apparently. This is the best translation I found of the Diamond Sutra. I was very surprised. And so I wanted to mention that I’m in the process of translating the Diamond Sutra from the Tibetan, and I’m comparing it with several other translators to see what they’ve done with various passages. And I look and think, “It isn’t quite right.” But I checked a few passages in this one, a couple of them that others have gone in a bit of a wrong direction, in my opinion.

Student: Who is the author?

Ken: It’s A.F. Price and Wong Mou-lam. Wong Mu lam is W-O-N-G, M-O-U hyphen L-A-M. So it’s Price and Mou-Lam, I would say Diamond Sutra and the Sutra of Hui-Neng.

Now, we’re going to go over a passage where I differ from his take on it. But the passage seems to cause everybody a lot of confusion, because you don’t have punctuation marks in Sanskrit and Tibetan, so you aren’t quite sure where quotes begin and end. And that makes a difference on how you interpret the passage. Do you put the end of the quotation there? Or do you put the end of the quotation there? And in this particular passage, it makes a very big difference, in my opinion. So there’s that.

And then this is a book, you’ll find it under the title, How to Cook Your Life. This is published under the title, From the Zen Kitchen to Enlightenment, but it’s now published, I believe, under the title of How to Cook Your Life. There are two books by that. They’re both on the same topic. The root text is by Dogen, who’s the founder of Soto Zen. And one is by Glassman, that’s his commentary on it. This one is a commentary by Uchiyama.

Ken: So if you’re looking for this, How to Cook Your Life by Dogen and Uchiyama, that’s U-C-H-I-Y-A-M-A. And, I think this is a phenomenal book. I’m mentioning it because we’re going to be using some of the perspectives that are in this book. I’ve read through this book with students more than a couple of times. I mean, literally, we meet once a week or once every two weeks or something and read it together, and it’s always been very fruitful. I think it could be helpful to you.

Student feedback

Ken: Now, the next thing is I need some information from you. So I’d like to do this very, very quickly. And I’d like to hear from each of you one thing that you have got out of our meeting together, this class, so far. Because at the end of this session, we’re actually halfway through this. Please be very succinct. Just one sentence. And, so you won’t have much time to think about it, but others will have more time to think about that one sentence. Snd if you say nothing, that’s fine. And if everybody says nothing, then I’ll know where I am. Okay.

Student: I have little things I write down every class. But one that came back a lot was that capacity and awareness must be grown together.

Ken: Very good.

Karen: My name is Karen, and the word that came to me was inspiration. I found a lot of inspiration for my practice through this.

Gladys: I’m Gladys. I think one thing that I took away so far is being an observer. Listening to what I say applies to other areas as well.

Student: I think I’m just still confused. I’m going to sit with it a little bit more.

Student: I’m finding that the flow responds to practice.

Student: I just feel lighter, a little more wispy.

Student: Thinking a bit about the difficulties of translation, especially for texts that are trying to point sort of beyond language.

Ken: Don’t leave Kati out of this.

Kati: I’m really appreciating the idea of having the sutra work on you.

Student: I’m not taking it literally.

Student: Sutrayana, very challenging, very strange waters.

Student: The equanimity and the humility of, “Not good. Not bad. Keep going.”

Student: The instruction to balance intention and attention.

Student: Just the reminder to not be thinking about what I’m reading when I’m reading the sutra and just being with it.

Student: I appreciate people asking good questions.

Student: I haven’t attended, but I’ll say the difficulties of translating, as someone said, and being able to bring it forth with clarity. It’s your strong suit.

Student: It helps stop improving. Trying to improve.

Student: The illusion of control is an indication of a lack of freedom.

Ken: Oh, my head hurts.

Student: A greater sense of loving intimacy with myself as well as within a greater sense of fearlessness.

Ken: Okay. Behind you.

Mo: So for me, my name is Mo. It’s been knowing through confusion, and knowing beyond words and beyond mind. These words seem kind of silly, actually, but yeah.

Ken: Thank you.

Student: The opening and closings have been awesome, and I’ve been using them to kind of ritualize my meditation practice at home more.

Ken: Thank you.

Student: Non-attachment. Not any form. Not attached to any form.

Ken: Okay.

Student: I’ve been thinking a lot about the translation of dharma as holding to.

Student: I’m enjoying the reminders to notice.

Student: Also, that perception of control is an indication of a lack of freedom.

Ken: And that’s going to be engraved on my tombstone.

Student: Mine has nothing to do with the sutra, per se, but, the importance in continuing a practice over many, many years, the importance of being exposed to great teachers and great teachings, which sounds terribly brown nosing, but it’s just been so stimulating and revitalizing to be here. So that’s what I’m taking.

Student: Asking myself why I am drawn to this practice and trying to find an answer that makes sense to me, and also hearing everyone else’s reasons is also very inspiring.

Student: I won’t say the illusion of control for the third time, although if it wasn’t said, I would be saying it. What I will say is the importance of having a teacher.

Student: I also would love to say the illusion of control, but instead I will say how struggle brings in a new perspective when you sit with it.

Student: Taking up a practice in a really exploratory, open-ended way and just seeing what happens without a goal.

Student: Learning to listen to others, having some more humility and being curious again about things I assumed I knew.

Student: I think you said something really beautiful in the beginning, which is sutras or sacred writing actually meet you where you are. And I notice every day that it continues to open more and more. And that’s more of an energetic thing than it is just content, which is very beautiful.

Student: “Why are you here?” Times five. And then “dharma is holding.”

Student: For me, “experience it completely” in the … [Unclear] story.

Ken: Okay.

Student: When you speak, listen to your words as though they were those of another person; that is practicing right speech.

Student: I think for me, it’s definitely really reinvigorated and reaffirmed my “why?’ And another key point is, not only hearing but believing that expectation, not expectation, “experience and awareness are not two.”

Student: For me, it’s also asking “why?’ and noticing that the answers change. Like if you ask yourself why every day, it’s like a different answer every day.

Ken: Okay.

Student: Reaffirming a bunch of what other people have said, I will add, I’m learning a tremendous amount about teaching.

Student: I think I’m going to double down on the brown nosing because I’ve been … every time since I’ve been exposed to your teaching. I really like the taste of that dharma that you got going. So whatever you were teaching, I was going to be here.

Ken: Thank you. Okay. Thank you all very much. That’s really good to hear what you’re taking. And it seems that the illusion of control has become very popular. Most people, they walk to the nearest wall and start banging their head. So in keeping, I want to turn attention to the verses that we did, the awakening intention. We’re doing one of these each week, and this is the one for this week.

The four great vows

Ken:

Beings are numberless. May I free them all.
Reactions are endless. May I release them all.
Doors to experience our infinite may enter them all.
Ways of awakening are limitless. May I know them all.

In the Zen tradition, these are known as the four great vows. And they’re used, recited very regularly. There are innumerable translations of these. I do not know Chinese or Japanese, but I came across a site which I’ve never found again, which contained about 15 translations, I think. And having some experience translating from Tibetan into English, the first thing I noticed is that most of the translations do not preserve the parallelism that is obviously there in the Japanese, or actually in the Chinese characters. And the last line is very often translated as, “The way of the Buddha is limitless. May I know it all,” or something like that. And this points to a very common problem we encounter in translation, in that, there are a number of words, buddha, bodhi, which is the word for awakening. and nirvana and several others. These are all nouns in English, but in both Sanskrit and at least in Tibetan, I would presume, they can be both nouns and verbs. In fact, the passage we’re going to take a very close look at, it would be better translated “I nirvana all kinds of sentient beings.” But we can’t say that in English. And “Even though all kinds of sentient beings are nirvanaed,” doesn’t quite sound right, but that is how the Tibetan is constructed. It’s very absolutely a verb. So in looking at this, there’s a translation that came out of a Zen group in Ottawa that I came across and I went, “Oh, that’s interesting. They took it as a verb there.” And when you take it as a verb, you’re able to keep the parallel structure in all the way through. And I find the parallel structure in this incredibly beautiful. On the one hand, I also find it very, very powerful. So in the last line, awakening is actually the word for buddha, you know, “ways of buddha-ing.” Buddha-ing would be, but that just doesn’t work in English because we don’t have buddha as a verb. So I want to point that out so that when you see other translations and that last line is different and has a very different grammatical structure, there is a reason for that. People have made different choices.

A journey inwards

Ken: What I find most powerful about the these four lines is that they’re a journey inwards. They’re a journey deeper and deeper into experience, and it is the journey that all of us make in practice. So you hang around sentient beings, you know, after a while, sentient beings just get to be a drag because nobody behaves the way that you think they should. Anybody else had that experience or am I all alone here? We do this long enough, and you realize that the problem’s not there (Ken points outwardly). The problem’s here (Ken points towards himself). And this is one of the things that the Diamond Sutra is going to point out. I hope you can get up to the places where this is pointed out. It points it out very, very powerfully. And it’s also what, Uchiyama is pointing out in this book. The problem isn’t out there. What arises, what we say is out there is experience, the stuff that arises in experience. But then there’s our reaction to experience, and it’s our reaction that causes us or leads us to struggle with life.

So that’s what the second line is about. We stop blaming everybody else for our problems, say, “Okay, I’m reacting. I’m reacting to this. I’m reacting to that, and what can I do about that?” So the first line is “Beings are numberless” and I’m going to free them all. If they just lined up the way I told them to, and then they could all march to freedom very easily, but they don’t do that. And then we start reacting. And so, this is one of the things that makes this path so incredibly difficult: we have to deal with what actually is. And our reactions are part of the picture. And what are we going to do about those? Yes. Michael?

Michael: Just a quick question. Would you say the second line there is related to the lojong slogan “Drive all blame into oneself”?

Ken: Yes, certainly. Yes, you could definitely say that. Okay. So how many feel that they can put an end to their reactions? Just turn them off like that? Anybody figured out how to do that? You could die. It’s one way of doing it. But they just go on and on and on, right? So what do we do with our reactions? Well, we react because we don’t experience things completely.

And we don’t want to experience things completely. Sometimes we don’t have the skills. Sometimes you don’t have the capacity. And the way we get out of experiencing something completely is either to express it, then everybody else gets to experience it, or we suppress it. Then our body gets to experience it, and after a while it makes us sick. So we can either make the world sick, or we can make ourselves sick. But this is all ways of avoiding experiencing our own reactivity completely. And what this leads to is the third line. Every one of those reactions is a door to something we haven’t experienced because we haven’t experienced the reaction completely. Every one of those reactions is a door to an experience we have not touched. So as long as we’re reacting, we are never experiencing our lives completely. Now this is the only life that I know I’m going to have. And I know there are some people who, you know, “I don’t want to miss a moment of it.” Well, then the challenge is to experience each moment completely, which includes all our reactions, if we can. And the five-step practice that I gave you last week is all about developing the ability to experience reactions completely. And how many of you have played with this instruction, that practice? Yes. What was your experience?

Student: Thank you. I work with my reactivity a lot. Like if I notice I’m rejecting experience, I try to be with that either in the moment, if possible, or if not afterwards. I’ll sort of do a meditation where I’m sort of replaying it and feeling the reactivity fully until it sort of dissolves or washes away …

Ken: And?

Student: It seems to help. Over time, I am gradually becoming less reactive, at least at the levels I can notice.

Ken: Very good Because what you’re doing here is, by doing what you’re saying, you’re building the capacity and you’re able to experience more and more of it. Keep going because there’s a few surprises down the road. One of the surprises is … you remember that five-step practice: I experienced this difficulty, whatever it is, I experienced my reactions to the difficulty. That’s the second. Third. I begin to relax in that experience. I find some ease in it, which allows you to open to it. And of course, then you experience more of it. So you find yourself cycling back to the first step and it goes around like that. But you stay with this long enough and something shifts inside. And now it’s like, “Oh,” and that shift comes from actually experiencing the reaction completely. And this is why I said last time, “What does the feeling want?” It wants to be felt. That’s its reason for being. And once a feeling has been felt completely it goes, “Thank you. Bye bye.” And there’s an opening. And now we can understand ourselves and the whole situation that provoked the reactivity in a different way. And that’s why it says “Ways of awakening.” There’s a little bit of awakening in that. “Ways of awakening are limitless.” So every one of our reactions is not only a door to experience, it is a path to an awakening. And everybody talks about Vajrayana and tantra, etc., but the key principle in Vajrayana and tantra is exactly this, and what I’m reading here, is very firmly grounded in sutras. It is to make use of the reactive processes in ourselves to wake up. And everybody thinks it’s a nice little shortcut, but it requires really special skills and abilities to do that. And that’s the hard part, is developing those.

These four lines, are connected very much to a portion of a sutra. The portion of the sutra is known as Samantabhadra’s intentions or noble intentions. In the three year retreat, we recited a prayer every evening. That was the title Samantabhadra’s Noble Intentions. And Samantabhadra is one of the eight great bodhisattvas in the classical Mahayana. And, he’s one of the key figures in the sutra that all of this comes from, which is the Avatamsaka Sutra. Now, the Avatamsaka Sutra translated into English, is 1,800 to 2,000 pages. I’m not making you read that every day. But I know people who have, and they get a tremendous amount out of it. The Diamond Sutra, being 45 minutes or so—reading it at a reasonable rate—stirs up a lot of stuff. So you can imagine what reading 2,000 pages will do. So. If anyone’s a bear for punishment, there’s endless possibilities for you. But nobody regrets doing it. Nobody regrets doing it.

And this Avatamsaka Sutra, which is very much about this, has incredible richness and interconnection of absolutely everything. And that’s why it is mind boggling, because when you read this, as many of you are experiencing in reading the Diamond Sutra, you can’t hold it conceptually. And so you have to form a different relationship, which isn’t depending on the conceptual mind. This is incredibly valuable in terms of of this practice. So any questions on this? I just want to touch on this briefly.

Reading without depending on the conceptual mind

Student: Can you explain more what you mean by that?

Ken: Explain more what I mean by what?

Student: Can you explain more what you mean by reading the sutras and not understanding it conceptually, so having a different relationship with it?

Ken: Okay. I’m going to quote four lines there from the Heart Sutra.

Form is emptiness.
Emptiness is form.
Emptiness is not other than form.
Form is not other than emptiness.

What do you experience?

Student: Confusion.

Ken: Let’s go. Slowly. Okay. Form is emptiness.

Student: I think that that makes sense conceptually.

Ken: Yeah, kind of. Emptiness is form.

Student: Makes sense.

Ken: Okay. You can hold those two together?

Student: Yes.

Ken: Okay. Emptiness is not other than form.

Student: Yeah, it’s also kind of following.

Ken: Form is not other than emptiness. Kind of all falls apart at that stage doesn’t it?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: What do you experience when it all falls apart?

Student: I feel like it just falls apart. And then I just kind of am like, okay with it.

Ken: Okay. Now, I’m going to say the same four phrases again, but I want you to pay particular attention to what happens when it falls apart.

Form is emptiness.
Emptiness is form.
Emptiness is not other than form.
Form is not other than emptiness.

Ken: Right there. What’s there?

Student: I think I’m still mentally trying to grasp on to what it could possibly mean. So I’m trying to still conceptualize like “What is this trying to tell me?” But then I think I kind of give up a little bit.

Ken: That’s the important part. Let me do it once more and see if you can note and be right when there’s that little giving up.

Form is emptiness.
Emptiness is form.
Emptiness is not other than form.
Form is not other than emptiness.

Ken: Right there. What’s that?

Student: Mmm.

Ken: Good. You stopped thinking.

Student: I did.

Ken: Yes. That’s the point. That’s starting to understand it non-conceptually.

Student: But then that’s hard to do with the whole thing.

Ken: Well, you just do it one sentence at a time. You’re going to have plenty of opportunity with this Diamond Sutra. It’s a beast on this one. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Now, where are we? Any other questions on those four lines? Yes. There’s one back here. Raquel?

Raquel: With the reactions piece, I’m starting to question whether when I’m cutting, if that’s a cop out from feeling my feelings completely. Does that make sense? Like the—

Ken: It does make sense.

Raquel: Am I overusing cutting?

Ken: If you cut properly, you experience the reaction completely. Experiencing the reaction completely is the cutting. What you’re cutting is all the ways you avoid experiencing the reaction completely.

Raquel: Okay, can I use an example?

Ken: If you wish.

Raquel: So if I’m in really bad traffic and I’m, you know, “God.” And then I suddenly think, “What if this is the best part of my day and I’m about to miss it?” Have I—

Ken: You’re trying to talk yourself into it. Driving along. Really bad traffic. Stop and start. Your right foot’s getting really tired of being on the gas. Not being on the gas, being on the gas, not being on. Right. Maybe you’ve got cruise control and you’re doing some other way. But anyway, there you are. Stop, start, stop, start. “I’m going to be late. Aarrrggghhh.” Something like something like that? You notice that you’re reacting. Okay. So try this. Say to yourself, “Here I am stuck in traffic. I’m really angry.” And then say, “I’m angry and I’m glad.” Now, what happened there?

Raquel: Definitely cuts it, through silliness.

Ken: No, not through silliness.

Raquel: I’ve seen it for what it is.

Ken: No, that’s after the fact. After “I’m angry and I’m glad,” because when you say, “I’m glad,” you no longer push against the anger, right? There’s suddenly an opening.

Raquel: Ah, okay.

Ken: That’s what I mean about the cutting is the experiencing completely.

Raquel: Thank you.

Ken: Very good. Okay. One more and then I’m going to move on.

Student: I just wanted to share my reaction to what you just said. It feels like you’re doing tai chi and you’re pushing hands.

Ken: Yeah, you could look at it that way. Yeah. Because, I mean, I practiced tai chi for quite a while, and every now and then with push hands, the other person would just fall down, and it would feel like I had done absolutely nothing.

Student: But many, many years ago, I had the opportunity of doing some tai chi with a master from Taiwan. It was the first time I’ve ever done it and I had never experienced pushing against nothing.

Ken: Yes, yes, I had that experience with someone I was learning from and it’s just like, “Where is he?” Because he’s so in touch with me that he is moving before I realize that I’m moving. It’s incredible. Yeah.

Student: If you say to the anger, “I’m glad,” to me the anger has nothing to push against.

Ken: And so there it is. And you experience it and you find that, “Oh, it’s just an experience.” But as long as we are not experiencing it, it has all of this power and force. Thank you for bringing that up.

Okay, now we have to take care of our daily, regular visitor Nasrudin. And the story this time is that Nasrudin met a friend and they walked back this friend’s place, and sat down and just got involved in this incredible conversation. And neither of them noticed that it was getting dark, and when it was quite dark, the friend said, “Nasrudin, it’s dark. You’ll find a candle and some matches in the drawer by your right hand, and take them out and light a candle.”

Nasrudin said, “You fool. How do you expect me to tell my right from my left in the dark?”

Keep that in mind as we move forward.

The bodhisattva vow

Ken: Now, I just want to make sure I’m covering everything. Okay. At the end of our last class, we just very quickly looked at the paragraph, in chapter three, which is titled the Bodhisattva Vow. So I’m going to read chapter three in its entirety. And this is Buddha’s answer to Subuti’s question. At the end of chapter two he said: “I shall explain to you how those who have entered the way of a bodhisattva should live, how they should practice, and how they should hold their minds.” And this is what Buddha says:

The Most Honored said to Subhuti, “One who is fully set out on the bodhisattva path sets this intention.”
The Diamond Sutra, Ken McLeod (translator)

I’m working for my own translation here, so it won’t correspond to what you’ve read.

So, what I’m going to read now is the intention that someone who is practicing in this tradition sets for their practice. This is the answer to the question, “Why am I practicing?” And “What am I going to do?”

However many sentient beings are counted as sentient beings, whether they are born from an egg, born from a womb, born from heat and moisture, or born miraculously, whether they have bodies or don’t have bodies, whether they conceptualize, don’t conceptualize, or neither conceptualize nor don’t conceptualize—however many sentient beings are considered to be sentient beings in the realm of sentient beings—I shall bring all of them all the way to nirvana, to the vastness of the nirvana in which no aggregate remains. Further, although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning, all the way to nirvana, there is not a single sentient being that I bring all the way to nirvana.

That’s the bodhisattva’s intention. Now let me read the last part of that again:

I shall bring all of them all the way to nirvana, to the vastness of the nirvana in which no aggregate remains. Further, although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning all the way to nirvana, there is not a single sentient being that I bring all the way to nirvana.

Sounds like it’s contradicting himself, doesn’t it? So what’s going on here? I’m going to read this a third time, and I want you to pay—just as when I was interacting with this woman here—I want to you to pay very close attention to the best of your ability. What happens in you when you hear these lines? And it was a very good exercise that we did. I’m very grateful for that. In particular, as she said, “At some point I just give up.” See if you can identify that. And what do you experience right at that point? Okay. This is what I mean about paying attention to what is happening in you as you’re reading the sutra. In this case, the sutra is being read to you.

I shall bring all of them all the way to nirvana, to the vastness of the nirvana in which no aggregate remains. Further, although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning all the way to nirvana, there is not a single sentient being that I bring all the way to nirvana.

What happens? Anybody? Yes.

Student: I feel this feeling of satisfaction. Like I get the joke even though I don’t understand it.

Ken: [Laughs] Could you say a little more about that, please?

Student: I have no idea what it means, but there’s enjoyment in that, of …

Ken: Something relaxes?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Okay. Thank you. Somebody else? One and two here.

Student: So, with this one and with a lot of these, I tend to feel like I’m just doing a logic thing. I’m like. “Oh, well, I know nirvana is undifferentiated, right? So they’re not beings anymore when they get to nirvana. I figured it out sutra!” But that doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of what you’re suggesting we do.

Ken: Okay. When do you start trying to figure it out logically? At what point?

Student: Mmm. Definitely not on the first read through.

Ken: I’ll read it through, and you tell me, just make some hand gesture or something like that at the point that you start moving into figuring it out logically.

I shall bring all of them all the way to nirvana, to the vastness of the nirvana in which no aggregate remains. Further, although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning all the way to nirvana, there is not a single sentient being that I bring all the way to nirvana.

Okay. What were you experiencing right there?

Student: Something. Two things hitting.

Ken: Okay, good. And when you experience those two things hitting, what did you experience right there? I’ll read the sentence again if it would help. Yeah, just the last one. Okay.

Further, although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning all the way to nirvana, there is not a single sentient being that I bring all the way to nirvana.

Yeah. Pow. Right where we go. But what did you experience right there?

Student: A pause.

Ken: A little bit further.

Student: Some …

Ken: There’s something there isn’t there? Yeah,

Student: Yeah,

Ken: Yeah. Do you have words for it?

Student: The word that popped into my head was like, a motion.

Ken: Yeah, But if you’re just with it. Do you have a word for it? Right there.

Student: I don’t think I have a word for it.

Ken: Right. That’s your mind stopping? Okay. Thank you.

Student: Thanks.

Ken: Back here.

Student: So, I had until that last line, I had, kind of like, a little tightness in my chest. I feel like maybe from the the burden, almost the heaviness of freeing everyone. And them when the last line was read, it just felt like it almost like bubbled, or almost like, rippled and just lightened. And I just felt …

Ken: Phew, “I don’t have to do this.”

Student: Yeah, something like that.

Ken: That’s interesting. Why do you find this a burden?

Student: Well, the burden is my story for why I was feeling tight. So I don’t know … I wasn’t conceptually thinking that in the moment.

Ken: Oh I see, I get it. Yeah, so first you notice the tightening and then you notice the loosening. Yeah okay. That’s helpful. Thank you. Okay. Good. Anybody else okay. We’ll take one over and one there and back here.

Student: I think I felt relief.

Ken: Relief from what?

Student: I felt like I could let go of something.

Ken: Okay.

Student: Like, more peaceful.

Ken: Okay. Thank you. We’re here.

Student: I would say that it was an aesthetic experience for me. I see it poetically. And the word would be mystery. And I simply fall into it, and let it do its thing as an artistic practice.

Ken: “She said menacingly.”

Student: No, really. I’m serious.

Ken: No, I understand that. I can feel it. What does it do?

Student: It’s like I said, it’s an immersion into the mysteries.

Ken: Okay. Could you say a bit more about that, please?

Student: Well, I come from a Catholic background, so I very much understand this kind of paradoxical way of praying, in a way, so I can sink into literally, a feeling, not knowing, experience that, again, it isn’t religious but is very aesthetic.

Ken: Aesthetic.

Student: Yeah. Like yeah. Creative, aesthetic. So the paradox that’s in the Diamond Sutra is to me, the poetry of the universe. So I accept that. I don’t try to understand. I feel it.

An extraordinary passage

Ken: Okay. Thank you. All right. I lost my page. Here we are. Okay. Then Buddha says:

Why is that? Because, Subhuti, if a bodhisattva engages the idea of a sentient being, he or she should not be called a bodhisattva. Why is that? Subhuti, anyone who engages the idea of a sentient being, the idea of a living being, or the idea of an individual being, should not be called a bodhisattva.

Now, the first time I read the Diamond Sutra, it was this passage, everything that we’ve just worked with, that caught my attention. And I want to build on what you’ve reported in your experience, and to the best of my ability, try to convey what I find quite extraordinary about this passage.

First, all the business about different forms of birth, etc., these are in the Indian tradition, the four ways that we come into life: be born from an egg, born from a womb, born from heat and moisture. That is, you have some garbage. It’s starts to rot and suddenly all these larva appear. They didn’t know that the flies laid eggs and things like that. But that’s an example of being born from heat and moisture.

And then there’s a miraculous birth, which is you’re just there. It’s, you know, when you die and if you’re born in the God realm, you just go, poof, there you are. But it’s the same way that you get born in hell, actually. So, maybe not so good. And then there’s the second category, whether they have bodies—which is all the beings in the desire realm—or they don’t have bodies, this refers to the higher level gods, which are the formless realms. There they don’t have a solid physical body. It’s much more attenuated than that. And then it goes into whether they conceptualize, that is they’re resting in very deep states of tranquility, but there’s still some conceptualization going on, and then there’s a still higher level where there’s no conceptualization going on. It’s just very, very still. And then there’s even higher states where they can’t even tell whether they’re conceptualizing or not conceptualizing, and so forth. But this is a way of very quickly summarizing the whole expanse of samsara. You had a question.

Student: Just a quick one. The way that Red Pine translated, it was “neither perceived nor not perceived,” which is the translation of the seventh jhana. And I was wondering what the connection is there.

Ken: It is the seventh jhana. This is the result of practicing that. Yeah. But that whole section is just a way of referring to all the different ways beings come into some kind of existence. So, how many sentient beings are considered to be sentient beings in the realm of sentient beings. Everyone. And the bodhisattva vow is, “I shall bring all of them to nirvana” or buddhahood, or whatever you want to call it. And now there is a distinction made, and as I’ve said before I feel that this sutra is a transitional sutra. It’s between the classical ways in the early 16 schools of Buddhism. And this is leading into the emergence of the full blown Mahayana. And this is right in that transition. So, you’ve got the bodhisattva ethic, but you’re still very much tied to the framework of early Buddhism. And the business between nirvana with remainder and nirvana without remainder: Huineng was asked about this, and he said, “It’s like a fire. When you burn a piece of wood, nirvana with remainder is like the ashes, and nirvana without a remainder, or without anything left over, is like the ashes are gone too.”

And nirvana has often been translated as extinction. It’s a really unfortunate translation, because it’s not clear. People feel it’s the personality that’s being extinguished, but it’s not. What’s being extinguished is the reactivity and the confusion. And so it’s not that you are extinguished, it’s the reactivity that is extinguished, and the confusion which leads to the reactivity. In the Tibetan tradition we refer to these as the two veils. Or I actually prefer to use the word distortions. You know how reactive emotions distort your perception of the world? You know, you just see, red when you’re angry. Or when you’re jealous, you see everything, it’s green. This is an attempt to convey the idea of how these reactive tendencies distort the way we experience. We don’t experience things clearly. Yes?

Student: I’m having difficulty. The paradox of, “And there’s no one.” No one. No one has been saved. There’s no one been saved. I will bring them. What I?

Ken: Let’s get there. Give me a moment here. Okay. A little bit ahead of the game there. So some of you may have experienced moments in your life either from vigorous exercise, intense focus, maybe in your meditation, various ways, where there’s no reactivity and everything’s just clear. So, the no reactivity is the equivalent … that’s the end of reactivity, and the clarity is the end of confusion. And those are the two veils: you have the distortion or the veil of emotional reactivity, and the distortion or veil of … it comes from the awareness that sees things, or the knowing that sees things in terms of I and other. And that’s the confusion. And it’s possible for those two distortions not to be present. And then you experience life in a completely different way. Now, the way that we get at ending reactivity is the cultivation of compassion. Or it’s one of the ways.

When somebody is angry with you, our immediate response is often somewhat defensive. Right? But when somebody is angry with us. They’re upset. We may not know what they’re upset about, but they’re upset. And if you connect not with the expression of anger that’s being displayed, but with the fact that they’re upset, what happens in you? Anybody? Do you get angry? Mmm. It’s an opening. Okay. And essentially you’re connecting with their suffering, and you’re not distancing yourself from the suffering. You’re present with the suffering or the struggle that they’re experiencing. And that’s compassion. Being able to stand in the presence of pain and confusion and not withdraw. Which involves being open to that and actually experiencing it. And it changes everything. And that essentially is what the first part of the vow is about.

“I shall bring all of them to nirvana,” just puts this huge superlative on it, “to the vastness of the nirvana in which no aggregate remains.” That’s the expression of compassion. And it goes on further:

Although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning all the way to nirvana, there is not a single being who I take all the way to nirvana.

Now what on earth does that mean? So, to understand this, I want to appeal to another example which I found very helpful. Suppose you are dreaming. And in that dream a man or woman comes up completely distraught, terribly upset. And they tell you that their daughter is sick and dying. Now you know this is a dream. You know that there’s no man or woman there. It’s just a dream. And you know you’re dreaming. What do you do? What do you do in the dream? What did you say?

Student: Respond.

Ken: Respond how?

Student: Give me some water.

Ken: Why do you do anything? It’s a dream. Pardon?

Student: Oh, you wake up.

Ken: Well, you could wake up. Yes. And then the dream’s over. But just think about this for a few moments. There you are in a dream. You know it’s a dream. This person comes up, they’re in terrible pain, emotional, maybe, and physical. And they look to you and they say, “Help me.” And in the dream, knowing that it’s a dream, what do you do? Jennifer.

Jennifer: Just a word or two. You comfort them.

Ken: Why?

Jennifer: Because you do. There isn’t any other answer. I’m sorry.

Ken: No, don’t apologize because what you said is very important. When I asked you why, you said, “Because you do.” Even though you are not thinking that they are a sentient being, even though you’re not thinking that they’re a person, there’s just this immediate response. And you do. I’m going to read this passage again. You let me know if it makes any more sense now.

Further, although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning all the way to nirvana, there is not a single sentient being that I bring all the way to nirvana.

Jennifer?

Jennifer: I just jumped to my mind. Damn it! I felt it happen because physically, what I’m feeling in this is solar plexus, warm, heart and relief. So the body is responding.

Ken: Yes. That’s important. Keep going.

Jennifer: And I still would have the same answer.

Ken: Yes. Keep going.

Jennifer: And then the mind would say it’s because each person goes to nirvana themselves. I’m not doing it.

Ken: Ah, that’s where you started thinking. Yeah,

Jennifer: Yeah, see what I mean? Damn it.

Ken: Do you want to take another shot?

Jennifer: The same answer because …

Ken: No, no, you get another shot, see if you can catch it before the thinking starts. I’ll read it again. Would you like to do that?

Jennifer: Yeah. Please.

Ken: Okay

Further, although I bring sentient beings beyond reckoning all the way to nirvana, there is not a single sentient being that I bring all the way to nirvana.

Jennifer: Because there’s no I. I mean, we’re doing out of the heart. Yeah. Sorry.

Ken: I know, and it’s hard. It’s hard to avoid.

Jennifer: And it’s hard to go backtrack once the mind catches you.

Ken: Yeah. It is.

Jennifer: But I’m still. I’m still back with the just …

Ken: Yes. No, you’re absolutely right. But what I’m trying to point to is, there you are. In this dream you know there’s no one in front of you. There’s just these figments of your dream that are. You’re dreaming they’re distraught, and there’s this immediate response of comforting or helping or doing something. Expression of compassion. At the same time that there is no sense of there being anyone there. This is what Buddhism is aiming at. Those two sentences. That we are engaged in the world in which there isn’t any concept of anything other. And yet to everything that arises, we respond appropriately without even a moment’s thought.

This is an extraordinary possibility. And this is what the Diamond Sutra is pointing to. Now, going by the feeling in the room, I think a few of you are getting this.

Student questions

Ken: Anybody want to? Yes. Here first and then just work straight back, because I think there were two people behind him.

Student: So, when you realize your own emptiness. No center, no inner interior, you look out and you see the same, and yet life’s asking you to respond. I love that you’re using the word compassion because even though you know your emptiness and you look out and see that emptiness which is sameness, that’s how it’s experienced or suchness. You’re still, through a deep level of love, it’s not love like a human emotion, it’s a compassion that’s through connectedness, oneness, sameness.

Ken: Okay. Thank you.

Student: To be honest, I have no idea how I could be so compassionate as to do what’s being described there. There’s a tension in me of like, “Oh, I’ll never be like that.”

Ken: Of course not. What did this gentleman just say? There’s no you there? There’s only the response. There’s the clarity of knowing, and then there’s the compassion of response. So you don’t have to worry about it.

Student: Then there’s the tension of comparing myself to that theory. Yeah.

Ken: Yeah. Now, question. Even though you doubt that you could ever be like that, are you drawn to it?

Student: Yes.

Ken: Okay. This goes back to stuff that I’ve touched on in the two previous classes. That yearning, longing, however you want to put it, that’s your intention. That’s where the energy of your practice comes from, is letting yourself feel that. And then you let the practice work on you and you see what happens. Do you follow?

Student: Yeah, yeah.

Ken: Okay. There’s one over here. Okay, let’s go over here.

Student: I guess this is kind of in line with what everyone’s been saying, but it reminds me of something you said in the first class when you were talking about the differentiation between, just experience and response versus kind of that dualism of thinking. There’s some experience and therefore there’s a person to experience. I think you said, “You respond to what is presented to you and you don’t have a choice.” And so kind of like you said now, “There’s no I response. It’s just the clarity of knowing and that response.” And it feels very calming. Like in that dream, it’s presented to you, you just act. There’s no thinking, there’s no questioning. You just do it. And in that moment, I guess that’s what you’re trying to get at.

Ken: Yeah. Anybody else? Back here. And then over there.

Student: I just need a point of clarification. I found myself, in the listening, I kept getting stuck at “beyond reckoning.” Could you elucidate that a bit?

Ken: How many stars are there in the universe? How many stars are there in the universe? Pardon?

Student: An innumerable number.

Ken: I guess you just arrived at beyond reckoning.

Student: Is that what you meant?

Ken: Thank you. Okay. Over here. Over here.

Student: Can you talk about dream? And I just wonder if it’s true that, to a degree, life is basically we are living in the dream until we are aware we are living in the dream, that we we react to all the external stimulus. But once we realize all this actually is a dream, then we will be less likely to respond to all external …

Ken: Let’s clarify that. And I think the dream analogy is helpful. There you are in a dream, but you don’t know that you’re dreaming. And I always remember this. I was reading the biography of Jamgön Kongtrül the Great, who is a 19th century teacher in Tibet, and he wrote his autobiography, and I read it during the three year retreat. It’s been translated into English. And at one time he recounts how, he dreamt that he was being chased by a lion or a tiger, and he was running as fast as he could from this lion—let’s say it’s a lion—and eventually found himself in a temple. And there was a throne in the temple, and on the throne there was the fifth Karmapa, who was one of the great, teachers of the Kagyu lineage. About 4 or 500 years before Kongtrul lived. so it was a figure he knew about but never met. And the fifth Karmapa was laughing on the throne, said, “Oh, you’re scared of the little tiger here in this? How are you going to ever function as a bodhisattva?” Then he woke up from his dream. So that’s reacting when we don’t know that we’re dreaming. When we do know that we’re dreaming, the dream doesn’t go away. But we don’t react the same way. So when we wake up, this life doesn’t disappear. But our relationship with it changes very, very deeply. Does this make sense?

Student: Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Ken: You’re very welcome. Okay. Any other questions at this point here and then here? Yeah.

Student: Does this example kind of go back to experience and awareness are not two.

Ken: Very much so, very much so. It’s exactly right.

Student: I’m embarrassed to say that I always find it very frustrating with the first line of this, vow. “May I free them all.” And, it just brought a lot of things up. And even after what you said here, I kind of know that, there is a response and, this thing is like drawing me to just serve what the situation calls for. But every time when I say this line in my meditation practice, it’s like some part of me just feels like that’s very hypocritical. The other parts want to form an image like this, and I’m just very frustrated by all these reactions that got stirred up by this single line.

Ken: Well, aren’t you fortunate? You have this brilliantly clear practice point right in front of you. You don’t have to go anywhere. You don’t have to look for it at all. It’s right there. Okay. Now don’t analyze. Just tell me. “Sentient beings are numberless. May I free them all.” What comes up?

Student: At first, nothing.

Ken: Yes. And then?

Student: And then a lot of things come up.

Ken: Yes. So when you repeat this line. At first nothing, rest there. Then all these other things come up. You know what all those other things are?

Student: Reactions.

Ken: Reactions are endless. May I release them all. [Laughs] Exactly. There you are. Oh, no. Thank you.

The possibility of world in which the self doesn’t arise

Ken: Okay, well, I really hoped to get beyond chapter three tonight. Once again, I have failed completely. Okay, please hand out one index card for everybody. There should be plenty there. Just take one and pass them on. We are now halfway through this course. We have got to chapter three. Somebody is not doing his job. But my feeling is that some of you are beginning to get a sense of what the sutra is actually talking about here. And the first time I read these lines. I was just blown away. I went, “Oh,” because for me this is as deep as anything you’ll find in mahamudra, dzogchen or any of the other things. What they’re pointing to is a relationship with the world in which the self doesn’t arise. And there’s just this immediate response. Now, this is so far beyond our ken, and we’ve heard this from a few people. “I can’t do that.” Well, you’re right, you can’t do that. But it’s a possibility all the same. And if you’ve taken something of that, you’ve even got a small smidgen of that sense, that’s really something quite wonderful, as you’ll see when you go on. So I’m very happy to take the time and I hope this was helpful to you.

Now, what I want … has everybody got an index card? Now, what I want you to do is to write down on that index card three questions that you want to have answered by the end of this course.

Student: Right now.

Ken: Well, I want you to write one of them down right now, and you can think about the others. But that’s what this index card is for. It’s for you to write down three questions that you want to have answered by the end of this course. Are we all clear about that? Write them down. Keep them with the materials, wherever you’re keeping the materials for this course. Because—and here’s the kicker—it is your responsibility to get answers to those questions. In other words, you don’t let me get out of here until you’ve got answers to those questions. It’s your responsibility to get answers to those questions. Okay. That’s the deal. Okay. Let us turn to the closing prayers. Thank you everybody. I mean, I think this was—at least from my point of view—judging from the interactions I’ve had and the feeling in the room, I think this is extremely fruitful. I really appreciate you hanging with me in what is not easy material at all. As we’ve heard from many people, it brings up a lot of stuff. And not everybody would hang with it. So this is very good. And you get this part of it. A lot of the other stuff is going to start to fall together. Okay. Dedication prayers please.

Dedication prayer

Goodness comes from this practice I’ve done.
Let me not hold it just in me.
Let it spread to all that is known and awaken good throughout the world.

Awakening mind is precious.
May it arise where it is not arisen.
May it not fade where it has arisen.
May it ever grow and flourish.

When everything is known, there is nothing to understand.
When everything is clear, there is nothing to explain. When everything is in its place, there is nothing to do.
May the joy of this way touch beings everywhere.

See you next week. Yes.

Working with the ecstatic practice

Student: Can you talk about the ecstatic practice? How should we be working with that?

Ken: Kati, do you want to continue recording or not? Okay. Question about the ecstatic practice. The purpose of the ecstatic practice is twofold. It does many other things, but one is, it’s about building energy. And you’ll find that with the energy that you build through working the ecstatic practice, you’ll find your attention more stable in your meditation. And the way this is done is you notice this is not a focusing practice. It’s actually the opposite. It’s an opening practice. So you set a frame and you see everything in that frame, and you keep working with that until you can see everything in the frame, and your eye will go to this and your eye will go to that but you keep coming back and expanding to the frame so that you start to experience moments where you’re seeing everything in the frame at the same time.

It’s wonderful to do this with trees. You look at a tree until you can see every leaf in the tree at the same time. Waterfalls are wonderful. Christmas time, shopping malls are great for this. Stand in front of a store window that’s full of lights and glass decorations, with all the refractions and reflections and things like that, until you can see everything at the same time. You have the natural frame of the window, you see, and things like that. Don’t do this while you’re driving, please. Some people have made that mistake. Fortunately, it hasn’t ended in an accident, but I do not recommend it while you’re driving. So it’s building that capacity to just open to the totality of your experience. and as you read on, it’s going through all the senses and everything like that, and you can start to walk through your life this way, and you’ll find that you don’t react to things because you start including the reactions in the field.

So not only are you building energy, because the way energy is built is by experiencing a reaction without being consumed by it. And so the energy in the reaction is transformed into attention. Now, don’t try and do this intentionally. It doesn’t work that way. You just do this by opening to experience and keeping doing that. And you’ll find that it will change your sitting practice. And then as you become used to to doing this, you’ll find that reactions can just play themselves out without you having to do anything about them, because you’re not expressing them and you’re not suppressing them. So this opens many possibilities.

And as many of you have already recounted to me, the Diamond Sutra is kicking up a lot of stuff, even though you don’t understand where it’s coming from. So learning to open this way and experience the fullness of your experience, I thought was important. Okay. I think the instructions are relatively straightforward.

You can take this a step further and transforms into what a friend of mine calls the primary practice. And this is where you begin to bring an element of insight into it. And that is when you can stay present in the whole field. Then you just ask yourself this little question like, “What experience is this?” And there’s the shift there too, that’s very important. Okay. All right. Any other questions before we close for the evening? Okay. Have a good week. Keep reciting the sutra. Of course.

Kati: Thank you. Ken. Thank you, everyone, for being here. I want to let you all know that this week we have the good seltzer and chocolate. So if you’d like to stay and chat, there will be chocolate and the good seltzer, in the lobby. So stay talk to everyone about how confused you are about the Diamond Sutra. And I also want to let you all know that if you don’t have plans Friday night, or if you do have plans Friday night, you should cancel them, because Henry Shukman is going to be here right here in this room talking about his new book, which is called Original Love: The Five Stations on the Path to Awakening. There’s only four. Oh, wow. I’m further along than I thought. This is great news. Come back on Friday for more good news. So that’s Friday, 7 to 9. Henry will be here. There will be copies of the book. You can ask him questions. He’s teaching a whole weekend workshop that is very close to full. But there are still some spots for Friday night, and I personally can’t imagine a better way to spend a Friday. So I hope to see some of you here for that. And I know I’ll see all of you out there in the lobby. Thank you all. Thank you Ken.