Helpful for practice?

Ken: Okay, this morning’s a little technical. Let me set a little context if I can. Okay. Yesterday I talked about how the Tibetan tradition evolved from the Indian tradition of Buddhism after the Indian tradition of Buddhism had been around for a thousand years. We have almost no sense of what that actually means.

I was visiting the Royal Ontario Museum several years ago and they had a display on the main floor of a Sumerian village—read Iraq—many thousands of years ago. And there was a model of this village, which according to the archeology, had not changed in 4,000 years. That is, the birth rate and death rate were more or less constant, so it hadn’t grown, it hadn’t diminished. That kind of stability is just totally incomprehensible to any of us, because our grandparents wouldn’t recognize the world in which we live now. It’s changed so much and it continues to change.

I did not know what a database was when I was 12 years old. And most 12 year olds now know what a database is, not only that, they are able to operate with ’em more fluidly than I can. [Laughs] So, it’s very hard—from this vantage point—to get a sense of, “Here’s a tradition which has evolved, and gone through all kinds of changes over the course of a thousand years.” And a lot of this has to do with the development of institutions and organizations and systematic ways of doing things.

And I think that a very, very large piece of the difference in flavor, between say the Thai forest tradition of Theravada and the Tibetan tradition, is due to the very, very different processes of evolution. And so they speak and talk about things very, very differently. And there’s quite significant differences within the Theravadan tradition between the Sri Lankan, and the Burmese and Thai traditions. The Sri Lankans are extremely scholastic and very, very academic, more in line with the Tibetan in that sense, even though the subject matter is a bit different.

I remember a Sri Lankan teacher coming to visit Kalu Rinpoche, and he was grudgingly accepting that Tibetan Buddhism might be a branch of Buddhism, but he wasn’t really convinced. And this was one of the first occasions he’d had to meet a respected teacher in the Tibetan tradition. His name was Dr. Ratanasara. And in the meeting he said, “In our tradition, we talk about the five forces, and the five …” I can’t remember the terms, “37 factors of enlightenment.”

Rinpoche said, “Oh yes, we talk about those. We have those too. And then we have …” and he just gave the others, the ones that followed on immediately from that list.

And Dr. Ratanasara said, “You know about these?” [Laughter]

So, one of the things that happens with the evolution of traditions is—in a very strange way—the things that allow people to attach to, but aren’t particularly helpful for practice, often form the backbone of the institutions. Now, we’ve talked a bit about this on Sunday, when I was giving a workshop on the Heart Sutra in Waterloo, because the Heart Sutra is basically a demolishing of the conceptual frameworks that the Sarvastivadins developed in order to describe practice in Buddhism. And, of the early traditions, it was the only one who said, “No, these things really exist.” And of course they don’t really exist. But that was the one systematic philosophy that survived.

And from those early periods, everybody else was busy just meditating. Now, we have a similar problem, a similar propensity, in the Tibetan tradition. And in the two sentences that I presented to you yesterday, I did my best to translate them out of this very, very conceptual academic knowledge into what’s actually being said.

Pointing out instructions

Ken: So, today I’m going to try to take a set of instructions, which are very experiential actually. They’re called pointing out instructions. And even with Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, who’s a great writer, and very direct and straightforward in many respects, but he’s still very, very much embedded—as virtually everybody is in the Tibetan tradition—in this extremely scholastic, academic mode of expression.

And in terms of evolution of societies, this is exactly where the Catholic church was in the Middle Ages. And one could probably do a nice run through on stages of evolution of societies on this. And one of the things that some of you may take from this retreat—which would be very, very good—is some sense of how to translate this very academically expressed material into stuff which reveals its life, and insight, and energy.

And we’re just beginning—now that some have actually learned this material and have a little bit of understanding of what it means—in a certain sense, we’re now just beginning that process of translation in this culture. I’m a little bit at the head of the game, ahead of the game on that one, which creates some interesting conflicts. Okay? I’m sure you can understand what I mean.

I’m going to go fairly quickly here. Okay. So, we’re going begin. Just sit for meditation. [Pause] And as we were discussing yesterday, just sit, and do nothing. [Pause] What happens? Anybody? Franca.

Franca: It is written on my pen. My pen says “think.” A lot of thoughts come up.

Ken: Okay. What happens to the thoughts?

Franca: They go away.

Ken: Okay. And if you just sit here for a while, what happens to the thinking? Anybody?

Student: Settles down.

Ken: Settles down. Okay. That’s the resting mind. Okay? [Pause] So, sit. Let the resting mind be there. I’m going to ask you, what is it? [Pause] You experienced the resting mind. What is it? Anybody? Sonya?

Sonya: Can’t say. It’s just an experience.

Ken: Yeah. We can go a little bit, tiny bit, further. It appears that there’s something there, but when we look, there isn’t anything there, right? That’s insight.

Student: That’s what?

Ken: Insight. So, you have the resting mind and you have insight. Now, I want you to do two things, one after the other. In the resting mind, is that seeing present?

Student: Is it what?

Ken: In the resting mind is that seeing present? [Pause] Anybody?

Student: It seems like it’s knowing, not seeing.

Ken: Okay, knowing is fine, talking about the same thing. So, the resting mind knows.

Student: I’m confused why you used the word that, as though you were referring to something that had already been raised. Is that seeing?

Ken: Yes. The resting mind. “That seeing.” Yes.

Resting and knowing are inseparable

Student: The resting mind, is that seeing?

Ken: The seeing that there is no thing, but it seems like there is. Okay? But that knowing is present, right? Now, in that knowing, is the resting mind present? [Pause] Anybody?

Student: Yes.

Ken: Yes. So, experience the two together, because you cannot separate them. The resting and the knowing. Sue?

Sue: 100%. The resting is the knowing.

Ken: Like heat and light. Judy?

Judy: I’m experiencing some confusion. My answer to “In that knowing, is the resting mind present?” was ,”No.”

Ken: Look at your mind. Do you see your mind?

Judy: No.

Ken: No. Are you resting?

Judy: Yes.

Ken: Thank you.

Judy: So, it’s the resting, it’s just the—

Ken: As Sue said, the knowing and the resting—

Judy: Okay. I think it was the phrase resting mind that got me.

Ken: That’s fine. This is experiential. Yes. Franca.

Franca: Is it possible to have resting mind without the knowing?

Ken: That’s for you to investigate.

Okay. So, that knowing resting mind, or that resting knowing mind—whichever way you want to put it—that’s the basis of practice. Formally—not formerly, but formally—it is called the birth of meditation. That’s the basis of practice.

Now, you can relax your efforts for a moment. That may not seem like very much, but that seed of experience is from which everything grows.

Where is the resting knowing mind?

Ken: To go a little bit further. Where does that resting knowing mind come from?

Student: It has no beginning.

Ken: It has no beginning. Where does it go? Jean?

Jean: It has no place to go.

Ken: Okay. Where is it now? [Pause] Anybody? [Pause] You’re all experiencing it. Where is it?

Student: Outside.

Ken: Outside?

Student: Can’t say.

Ken: “Can’t say.” I want to push this a little bit. Is it anywhere?

Student: No.

Ken: Okay. Well, let me get this straight. This resting knowing mind doesn’t come from anywhere, doesn’t go anywhere, and isn’t anywhere. What do we usually say about something that doesn’t come from anywhere, that doesn’t go anywhere? Pardon?

Student: It doesn’t exist.

Ken: Do you experience it? Okay, so put those two together. So, just be right there.

Student: Pardon?

Ken: Just be right there. This resting knowing mind that you experience doesn’t exist in any way. What happens when you open to that? Randy?

Randy: Phew! What a relief.

Ken: Why?

Randy: Because there’s nothing to worry about.

Ken: That’s a huge jump. How’d you get there?

Randy: Okay, let me give you a connector. [Laughter]

Ken: That would be really helpful. Thank you.

Randy: There’s nothing in the entire universe to which I can point and say, “That is what I am.”

Ken: Hmm. You’re going to have to give me another connector.

Randy: Or ask you to give me one.

Ken: No. [Laughter] You’re the one who’s making these statements. And I’m going, “Okay, I’m here and you’re there.” And could you throw me a lifeline there, Randy?

Randy: No, I can’t, actually.

Experiencing the knowing resting mind

Ken: Oh, okay. Well, how’d you get there? There’s a very important point here. [Pause] This little process we’ve done here, I don’t know whether everybody, but my sense is that many of you, had a palpable taste of the resting knowing mind. And also, when you looked at it, saw: it doesn’t come from anywhere, it doesn’t go anywhere, and it isn’t anywhere. And maybe for the first time, for some of you, those strange statements actually made sense.

Yet at the same time, there’s the incontrovertible experience of the knowing resting mind. So, we have these two things which seem to be in complete contradiction with each other: this incontrovertible experience, and this inability to conceive of any way in which it exists. And then my question is: When you have those two together, how is that? What do you experience? Randy offered the experience relief. What were some other experiences here?

Student: I had sort of a bout of nervous laughter.

Ken: Nervous laughter. Okay. Sue?

Sue: Everything’s okay as it is. there’s nothing to worry about. Just [audible exhalation].

Ken: Okay, so something like [unclear]. Anybody else? Mary?

Mary: I felt like hooray. Now I can always have it because it isn’t someplace else I have to go.

Ken: Okay. That’s right. Hooray! [Laughter] Okay. Anybody else? Carol?

Carol: A bit like almost taking a step to the edge of the cliff.

Ken: Okay, so for you it’s like taking a step to the edge of the cliff.

Carol: Well, it’s constantly there.

Ken: Okay. So, every step is like …

Carol: You’re about to go off, but you don’t know.

Ken: You don’t know. Okay. So, there’s a kind of a mixture of surety and uncertainty. Okay. Anybody else?

Student: I found for me, when I sit and try to focus in the meditative state, that I have to go through all the layers of the body, the sounds, all the sort of stuff, and I still can’t attach it.

Ken: Okay. Did anybody feel like the rug had been pulled out? Yeah. Okay. That’s another possible experience. So, all of these experiences, what is the common quality? David?

David: The quality is that each of us is able to experience it. [Laughter]

Ken: Any of you know of a website called despair.com? [Laughter] I highly recommend it. It has these motivational posters, and calendars, and things like that, but they’re all somewhat twisted. My favorite one is a picture of a bear in the middle of a river and it’s full of jumping salmon. And a salmon is jumping right into the bear’s mouth. And the caption is: “Travel: a journey of a thousand miles can end very, very badly.” [Laughter]

The one you just reminded me of is: “Did you ever stop to consider that the common elements in all of these dysfunctional relationships you’ve experienced is you?” [Laughter]

Student: Apparently I’m off the hook because I don’t exist.

Ken: So, let’s go back. We have relief, hooray, uncertainty, rug being pulled out. What’s the common element? I’ll just change it, just so that David can’t answer the same way. Common quality in all these experiences. Peggy?

Peggy: Personal reaction.

Ken: Yeah. Well that’s like saying, “What’s the common quality to a flower and a thing like this?” It’s substance.

Experience and the impossibility of defining it

Ken: Okay. No, let’s go a little bit further.

Peggy: Something like surprise.

Ken: Yeah. Okay. Surprise. What happens when you experience surprise?

Peggy: Big shock.

Ken: Yeah.

Peggy: Open.

Ken: Open. Yeah. And these are all right, it’s like that, right? Okay. So, let’s go back and do this again. Just rest and let yourself come to experience resting mind. This doesn’t have to be deep, deep, deep resting, just a little bit. We’ll be fine. And you look at that, which brings out the knowing.

So, experience the knowing resting mind or the resting knowing mind, which comes from nowhere, goes nowhere, and is nowhere. So, you have your experience and the impossibility of defining it. And so there’s that experience of rest right in that opening. What’s that like? Meg?

Meg: It’s maybe like smoke?

Ken: Okay. Anybody else? Randy?

Randy: Kind of a crystal like quality about it.

Ken: So, goes forever. Is that fair, Meg?

Meg: I haven’t found an end.

Ken: You haven’t found an end? Crystal clear? Anybody else?

Ordinary knowing

Ken: So, here is the empty clarity of mind. [Pause] Now, just relax. How available is that to you? A couple of people are smiling. What are you smiling about, Sonya? What are you smiling about?

Sonya: It depends. Sometimes it’s a flip of a switch. Other times it’s not that easily available.

Ken: In principle, how available is it?

Sonya: It’s right there. [Laughter]

Ken: Just so. Franca.

Franca: I like the expression: “Nearer to me than my own face.”

Student: It also has a familiar quality. It’s not as if, “Oh, this is something completely new. What is that?” It feels very familiar, having a home.

Ken: Well now we’re entering into the same area that Randy was earlier. You’re interpreting the experience. So, when you were saying, “There’s nothing there that I can point to that is me.” That’s true. But it is now an interpretation of the experience. Right? And people write books about this.

Student: It’s impossible to speak about it without interpreting it, but the quality of it being so absolutely normal astounds me. And that’s another way of saying the same thing that Sonya was saying. But the common thread is that this is not extraordinary. This is not … I don’t …

Ken: This is why we have the expression in Tibetan: tha mal gyi shes pa (pron. tha mal ji shé pa), which is ordinary knowing.

Student: I never understood that until—

Ken: Just now?

Student: No, another time when I started having these experiences.

Ken: Once upon a time, there is a man who, while settled in his life—he had a house, some income—but he didn’t know what to do. And he resolved that he would seek out a teacher for instruction and guidance in the ways of wisdom. So, he closed up his house, made arrangements, and left on his travels. And he went to one town after another, seeking advice from people, getting the name of this person or that person, and then he’d go and see them. But they never worked out.

He never found anybody who could really point him to the wisdom that he sought. And he journeyed far and wide for many, many years. And eventually, weary from his travels, he received one last name, a place where the person thought there might be somebody who could help him. It was a long and difficult trip and eventually found the individual and explained to him why he was there. And the person looked at him very, very intently and said, “I can’t possibly help you, but I can tell you this. There’s a tree in your backyard and there’s something wrong with its roots. It needs tending.”

Well, this is very difficult for the person, because after these many years, many struggles, the end of his journey was being told to go home and tend to a tree. So, he gave up his quest. There was nothing to do and made his way slowly, with the usual difficulties, over mountains, and deserts, and oceans, back to his house. Then he came into it, and went out into the backyard, and saw that it was just as this person had said, one of the trees was withering. The leaves weren’t flourishing.

And he thought, “Hmm.” And he had nothing else to do, so he went to his shed and took out a shovel and started digging to see what was wrong. And he hadn’t gone very far with this digging when he started to hit something really, really hard. He thought, “This is odd. What’s here?” So, he kept digging, and eventually he found that the problem with the tree is that there was a large chest there, which was blocking the growth of the roots. And so he dug the chest out, broke the lock on it, and opened it. He found that it was completely full of gold, which he now used to provide for the welfare of those around him.

In light of your experience, maybe you can take a look at the story in a different way. Okay? I’m sure many of you have heard this story before. Yes? Okay, that clear? Okay.

Let us continue. That was the easy half.

Student: He said this joyfully.

Ken: Well, I do. I enjoy this.

Okay, go back to the resting knowing mind. [Pause] Now, you experienced the resting knowing mind is enriched, or deepened, by the experience of being ineffable. Can’t say it is this, it’s another part of the knowing. So, rest in that. And while you rest in it, think of one thing, just a simple object, an apple, or an elephant, or a bird, or a flower. Just one thing.

So, you have the resting knowing mind, and that one thought, present at the same time. [Pause] What’s the relationship between that thought and the resting knowing mind? Just look. Don’t think; that won’t be helpful at all. Don’t analyze. As John Audubon said, “When there’s a discrepancy between the book and the bird, trust the bird.”

You have your experience of the resting knowing mind and that thought. This is your experience. Reason here is the book. Forget about it. What’s your experience? What’s the relationship between the resting knowing mind and the thought of that one object? Anybody? Carolyn?

Carolyn: The object’s very small.

Ken: Meg.

Meg: Object’s on top.

Ken: Anybody else? Amanda?

Amanda: At first it seemed like that to me, but then it seemed inseparable.

Ken: Anybody else?

Student: One is still and one moves. The thought moves and the rest of the mind is a still point.

Ken: Okay, so basically these come down to two possibilities. One is: they’re different; the other is: they’re inseparable.

Well, which is it? I’ll give you a hint here. You cannot think this up.

Student: But I don’t see movement and stillness as different [unclear].

Ken: Pardon?

Student: I can’t put it into words better than that.

Ken: I understand. Meg does one float on top of the other?

Meg: Yeah, but they’re all water. It kind of comes out of, and goes back into … It’s got different feeling of dimensions, but it’s the same thing.

Ken: Keep looking. So, you’ve moved now from “one on top of the other,” to “they’re different dimensions, but they’re the same thing.” Keep looking. What was that? Yeah, right. [Laughter] Was that like, “Get out of here Ken,” or something?

Student: It never changes. The instruction never changes: Keep on looking. [Laughter]

Ken: Anybody else? Stillness and movement. Are they the same or different? Look. Don’t think.

I could ask the question this way: What is the thought made of?

Student: Cheese. [Laughter] The green cheese.

Ken: Yeah. I’ve heard something similar with respect to the moon. Pam.

Pam: I think that the thought is different and it’s floating on top and it’s quite different because it’s full of the potential of a whole bunch of stuff.

How to look at mind

Ken: I want you to look, not think. So, to look, you go back to the resting knowing mind. Rest in the resting knowing mind. Let a thought arise. There’s the thought. What’s the thought made up? What’s the relationship between the resting knowing mind and the thought?

Student: At both experiences, while the thought’s there, it seems like they’re inseparable, but the thought goes …

Ken: Okay, that’s very good. I’m going to push this a little further. Where does the thought go?

Student: I dunno.

Ken: Okay, where does it come from?

Student: [unclear]

Ken: Okay. You get one more chance. Where is the thought? This sound like anything we’ve already covered? Okay. Now, this is not ordinarily how we experience thought, is it? When you experience thought this way, how is it? David.

David: Very clear.

Ken: Very clear. Okay, anybody else?

Student: Empty.

Ken: Empty. Anybody else?

Peggy: Random wave.

Ken: Wave. Yeah. Random. What do you mean by that, Peggy?

Peggy: Nothing. Just …

Ken: Any restriction? No. Does this sound familiar? Okay. Lemme go to something that may be a little more difficult. Here’s a flower. Everybody see the flower? Pardon?

Student: Not very well.

Ken: Okay. You may wish to take an object—and it doesn’t matter what object it is—that is closer to you that you can see. And if anybody has difficulty, then please do that. Now, you see the flower. While you look at the flower, I want you to connect with the resting knowing mind, but keep looking at the flower.

This is mixing meditation with appearances, but I think we can probably manage this at this point. So, there’s the resting knowing mind, and there is the seeing of the flower. What is the relationship between the seeing of the flower and the resting knowing mind? [Pause] Please note, I’m not talking about the flower. I’m talking about the seeing of the flower. What is the relationship between the seeing of the flower and the resting knowing mind?

Student: I see no distinction.

Ken: Anybody else? Joan?

Joan: It seems like part of the seeing mind.

Ken: Okay, David.

David: Same answer. It’s me.

How we move away from how things actually are

Ken: Okay. Turn to the mahamudra prayer. Page seven.

Student: You don’t like page six, do you? You just keep going to page seven.

Ken: There’s a lot of good stuff on page six, but not what I need today. Look at stanza three. Now, several of you said the seeing the flower is not separate from the resting knowing mind. Okay? That is true. The first line of stanza three is:

Perceptions, which never existed in themselves, are mistaken for objects.

Aspirations for Mahamudra

So, in the ordinary way of experiencing the world, where this experience arises, we do not experience the perception and the knowing mind as being inseparable. Instead, what happens is that we lose any sense of the perceiving and we only have the sense of an object. This is what this line means. It’s referring to how we move away from how things actually are into dualistic experience.

Everything that arises in experience is like this. Nothing that arises in experience is different from us, yet that is how we experience it. As “I” and “other.” What one is doing in mahamudra practice, and in dzogchen, and bare attention, and all of these direct awareness practices, is creating the conditions to refer back to page six. [Laughter] Franca’s happy now. The last stanza—we’re creating the conditions so that the third line of that stanza, the incidental stains of confusion can subside.

They’re called incidental because they’re not intrinsic to the nature of mind. They’re just stuff. The stains, like everything else we experience are mind, but the structure that they create is a distortion, and we function on the basis of that distortion in our lives. The separation of “I” and “other,” the confusion that arises from attraction, aversion, and indifference when there’s a sense of “I” and “other.” The reactive emotions which arise in order to maintain the sense of “I” without which we feel we don’t exist. In other words, the whole mess. So, if you look at this bottom stanza on page six:

The ground of refinement is mind itself—indivisible luminosity and emptiness.

Aspirations for Mahamudra

And you could substitute clarity for luminosity if you wish. It’s just a different translation. You tasted that a little bit in that the resting knowing mind is vividly clear and not a thing. That’s clarity emptiness. That’s the basis that makes all practice possible. And that is not a supposition; that is not a hypothesis. That is simply how things are.

The refining—the great vajra composure of mahamudra.

Aspirations for Mahamudra

It is the quality of attention, which allows us to experience what is, without chasing after the past, entertaining the future, dwelling on the present. That’s why those instructions are very important.

That is something that we cultivate, that’s the capacity area. What is to be refined is just what I’ve been talking about. This distorted way of experiencing things in that quality of attention—the absorption of mahamudra—that distorted structure—which you refer back to what I was talking about I think yesterday—is like ice. It falls, and now you have the clarity and fluidity of water. The result of all of this, the unstained, undistorted, if you wish, experience of being, which some of you have tapped into a little bit in the course of your practice

We’ve gone a little bit over. So, we’ll close here and continue this afternoon