Student questions

Student: I had a comment about the first two lines in 14.

Ken: Okay.

Student: Perhaps it’s just the way you translated it. But it almost seems as if he could see into the future where it would be possible to broadcast something all around the world. And, it just immediately made me think of all the pain and sorrow that’s being broadcast around the world by people, and maligning other people on the internet.

Ken: Yeah. Well, I chose the word broadcast.

Student: Obviously. I didn’t think it was in a Tibetan word.

Ken: I think it said something like, in front of a crowd. So, I just said, well, why stop there? [Laughter]

Student: Okay. [Laughter]

Ken: I mean, that’s all he could do in medieval Tibet. Because he didn’t even have loud speakers, so he just had a big voice in front of the crowd. We’ve got a big microphone now, called the internet, so—

Student: I had a feeling it was more the translation. Okay. That was interesting.

Ken: Any other questions? Over here.

Student: It’s not so much a question as a report back from our exchange yesterday. After that I contemplated a bit more my relationship with my chronic pain. And I had used the word antagonistic. And I realized that my relationship with pain could be characterized as, well, I was seeing pain as kind of my terrorizer, my tormentor, that kind of thing. And so I thought, well, what would it be like if I looked at my pain as a messenger, kind of an informer?

So, that really shifted things for me, because I realized that if I saw pain as an informer or messenger, then I could sort of almost have a conversation with it. And almost thank it for bringing my attention to something that I need to attend to, which is often something that I’m doing that I shouldn’t be doing. Or that I’m not doing, that I should be doing. Or that I’m not accepting and would be better to just accept. And so it really shifted things. And actually, that’s why I left early yesterday, because I had that conversation with my pain. And my pain brought my attention to the fact that I needed to move more. And so I went to the gym and I did some water walking, and I got my body in the hot tub. And it made quite a difference.

Ken: Well, I think that’s very good, everything that you say there. The shift in perspective is very important because the pain is part of your experience. And so when you fight with the pain, you’re actually fighting with yourself. And I’ve always found that when you have a fight with yourself, one of you loses. Always. And I think you’re quite right. The pain arises, and it’s telling you, “There are limitations here.”

And it takes us back to Mark Twain. Mark Twain’s one of my favorite authors here. You know, “Youth is wasted on the young.” So, it’s alerting us to something that’s reached its limit. We may not want that limit to be there, but it is for whatever reason. And listening deeply to our experience, and then based on what we hear, finding a way to navigate our experience moves us out of struggling and fighting things into just being present to the extent that we are. So, I think that’s very good. So, you don’t run into any difficulties today, if at any point you need to get up and move around at the back or lie down or something like that, please just go ahead and do it. It’s not going to bother me. And I’d rather you do that than you actually sit in pain and discomfort, because that’s not terribly helpful. So, thank you. Yes.

Student: So, yesterday you said something about the answer not being outside of you, and then you said, nor inside you. And it sort of set alarms off in me in terms of, wait a minute now. Aren’t we, as human beings, we have an inherent buddha heart that is just waiting to be awakened?

Ken: I’ve heard rumors to that effect. [Laughter] Well, there’s a very old Zen story about this. And it goes back, I think, to ninth century China, and this is a very, very famous story. And the monk asks the master of the monastery—I can’t remember his Chinese name, but in Japan he’s known as Joshu: “Does a dog have buddha nature?” And Joshu replies, mu, which is a Japanese word—in that version of the story—which is very difficult to translate. It has a negative meaning, but it’s not an absolute no. So, my idea as a possible translation for it: “Does a dog have buddha nature?” “No idea.” So, do you have buddha nature? “No idea.” Now what? Your turn. [Laughs]

Student: Well, again, that’s disheartening. You can’t speak for a dog, of course. But one would hope that as you go down the path, so to speak, you sort of gain confidence that, “Yes, as I change the way of dealing with the world that—let’s put it this way, make a long story short—it would be disheartening to learn that I don’t have that capability.”

Ken: Just a second here. As you become more awake and present in your life, and you discover that there is nothing inside you that you need to recover, is that disheartening?

Student: Oh, I like the word recover. You don’t need to recover.

Ken: But isn’t that what we’re talking about?

Student: Yes.

Ken: Yeah. And how does that sit with you?

Student: It’s better. [Laughs]

Ken: I’m not trying to make you feel good.

Student: Yeah, it’s like something’s lost. And then, it’s not lost. So, you don’t have to recover it. It’s there.

How teachings evolve into belief systems

Ken: Well, there is just what we experience. And teachings such as buddha nature, emptiness, perfection of wisdom, great compassion—just hundreds of these in the course of Buddhist history—these were all attempts by teachers at certain periods of history to communicate something to their students, which would help them be more awake and present in their lives. Now, what happens is that—and it continues to happen to this day—a teacher says, “This potential to be awake is part of your human heritage.”

And for some people that was like, “Wow. It’s just so liberating. It just opens up all kinds of possibilities.” And then 10, 15, 20 years later, there are books about buddha nature, and about what it is and what it isn’t, and etc., etc. And now it’s moved from a way of helping people move more into their life, into a belief system. Okay? And the history of Buddhism is littered with these terms, because as soon as they become a belief system or something that you believe in, they can lose all their power to help people. And they actually become a hindrance.

And there’s a wonderful quote, one of my favorite quotes from Saraha, who was an Indian master. Unconventional guy, he was a gun manufacturer. He made arrows, which is the equivalent of being a gun manufacturer in today’s world. And my quote that I like from him is: “The people who believe in reality are stupid, like cows. People who believe in emptiness are even stupider.” But he’s pointing exactly to what I’m talking about, because this word emptiness came up.

It’s such a wonderful word. It just sets everybody off because they can’t get hold of it, which is the whole point of it, you know? And people say, well, maybe we should translate it as openness. Maybe we should translate it as voidness, or something like that. But emptiness works just so well because people can’t get a hold of it. But it didn’t stop them from trying, you know? So, shortly after this teaching on emptiness comes up, then you have the 16 kinds of emptiness, and that’s later expanded into the 20 kinds of emptiness. Now, actually, there’s a lot of very deep teaching in that, and it’s quite good. But you see now it’s become a thing.

And as a thing, people grab onto it and form concepts and ideas and get attached to it. Someone tweeted a little quote of mine the other day, which said: “You can’t understand or explain emptiness; however, you can know it. And when you know it, you’ll have no words for it.” Because that’s how it is. It’s an experience, it’s a way of experiencing things. It’s not a thing.

And I don’t know how many people have come to me and said, “I want to understand emptiness.” And if I’m feeling in a not very good mood that day, I just reply, “Oh, I hear there’s nothing to it,” which kind of kills the conversation. But it, it’s all conceptual stuff, and something that can be understood. I remember my father was just hilarious on this point, because when I first came back from India, after meeting my teacher and told my father what I was doing, and gave him a couple of books to read. And he would read them and he’d go, “I don’t understand why you’re studying this, Ken. It says right here, ‘You cannot understand this.'” [Laughter] Okay?

Student: Well, thank you. It reminds me of something that you wrote about Buddhism as a set of tools by which we come to know who we really are. As opposed to a belief.

Ken: It really isn’t a belief system, which is why the word ism is rather unfortunate, because ism denotes some kind of system of beliefs in English. The word for Buddhism in Tibetan, for instance—I don’t know what it is in Sanskrit or Pali or anything—it’s gnang pa sang rgyas pa’i chos (pron. nang pa sang gyé pé chö). If you were to translate it, it would mean: a way of awakening internally. And that’s what it is. It isn’t a belief system. It’s a way. A way of awakening internally.

Student: Thank you.

Ken: You’re very welcome. Okay. Where should we begin? We are on verse 18, I believe.

Student: Ken, can I just make a couple announcements? So, a few things. There’s a few people who weren’t here yesterday. Welcome. Bathrooms are on the other side of this wall here in the hallway. There’s one handicapped bathroom in the corner here, outside the entry. There are blankets back there available if you need them in a bin. We have some of Ken’s written and recorded material in the back. The kitchen is in the back corner here. There are some snacks available. Water, tea, help yourself to those. There’s also a refrigerator if you need that for your food. Thank you.

Cultural Mismatch

Ken: Thanks. Okay. Well, I think we’ll just jump right in. And the next two verses are a good place to jump right in.

When you are down and out, held in contempt,
Desperately ill and emotionally crazy,
Don’t lose heart. Take into you
The suffering and negativity of all beings.

Even when you are famous, honored by all
And as rich as the god of wealth himself,
Don’t be pompous. Know that the magnificence of existence
Has no substance. This is the practice of a bodhisattva.

37 Practices of a Bodhisattva,Tokmé Zongpo, verses 18, 19

I’m going to throw in the next two also, because they’re along the same lines.

If you don’t subdue the opponents inside, your own anger
Although you subdue opponents outside, they just keep coming.
Muster the forces of loving-kindness and compassion,
And subdue your own mind.

Sensual pleasures are like salty water:
The deeper you drink the thirstier you become.
Any object that you attach to,
Right away, let it go—this is the practice of a bodhisattva.

37 Practices of a Bodhisattva,Tokmé Zongpo, verses 20, 21

Now, as Buddhism comes into this country, we were good for about the first few years, then some problems started to develop. And the first round of problems were this extraordinary cultural mismatch. Going back to the late 60s, early 70s, which is when this really big movement started, you had the very interesting phenomenon of the most radical elements of Western society interacting with the most conservative elements of Asian society. Because you had people who were dropping out, hippies, all the movement from the new left movement in the 60s. They either went underground into the Weathermen or they moved into various forms of spiritual practice.

There were tons of us going overseas and searching things out. And who did we run into? These people who are the pillars of conservatism of Tibetan or Thai or Japanese culture, because religion is the most conservative element of a culture. It’s the one that has the longest timeline. So, it’s always steeped very, very much in the past and adapts very slowly to new circumstances. So, that created some interesting clashes for a while.

Then the psychologists moved in and decided they were going to take over everything. That seems to go on every generation. Every 10 years the psychologists decide they’re going to take everything over. And they’re gaining ground, which is probably not a good thing. We’ve run into this a bit before, but it comes out more. You start running into the religious ideals that are already part of American culture. And some of these are really good.

I remember visiting a teacher in Toronto who’s a bit of a character, a Tibetan named Lama Karma Thinley. And after I’d finished the three-year retreat, I was back in Ontario. I called Lama Karma Thinley up said, “Can I come and see you?” Now, Lama Karma Thinley has his own way of only seeing the people that he wants.

“Who are you?”

“Lama Karma Thinley, we’ve met before. I’m a student of Kalu Rinpoche,” etc., etc., etc.

“I don’t know you. Who are you?” This went on for 20 minutes. He knows perfectly well who I am. After 20 minutes, he said, “Oh, oh, you. Yes. Oh, I know who you are. What do you want?” So, anyway, I eventually got to see him. And as I’m coming in, I do the vows that are customary. He says, “Okay, Ken, you’ve been in retreat for seven years. Which is better, Christianity or Buddhism?”

Now, I knew Lama Karma Thinley well enough. You don’t answer these questions. “I don’t know. What do you think?”

“Christianity.”

“Why do you say that Rinpoche?”

“Christians do what Buddhists think.” [Laughter] And what he was talking about—and it’s very legitimate point—is that Buddhism puts in a great deal of energy in cultivating loving-kindness and compassion. But Christianity, and Judaism very similarly, really sees that as an ethic that has to be taken out and actually manifested. So, I mean, how many hospitals have been founded by Christian or Jewish groups? Universities, many, many welfare organizations. And that kind of community serves a very, very deep part of the ethic of compassion in American culture.

And that’s something that people are taking note of. Now there’s certain problems with that. And there’s some people who say, if you aren’t an engaged Buddhist, you aren’t active in the world, you’re not a real Buddhist. I don’t buy that too much. But there’s the idea that compassion actually means action in the world I think is very healthy.

American Puritanism

Ken: But there’s some other things that aren’t so healthy. And one of the things that keeps cropping up in Americans’ approach to Buddhism is American Puritanism. Now American Puritanism is very interesting because there’s this ideal of being absolutely pure, you know, pure morals. Well, one of the things I’ve come to observe about purity, it’s actually a manifestation. The desire for purity is actually a manifestation of anger. Anger, you hate dirt. It’s a war on dirt. Well, I’m sorry, dirt is part of the world too.

Let’s take verse 18, for instance: “When you’re down and out, held in contempt, desperately ill, and emotionally crazy, don’t lose heart.” How this shows up is people will take that instruction, they’ll interpret it totally literally. And they will just not let themselves feel how upset and confused they are. And they will just maintain this attitude. “I have to have a good attitude here.” And they’ll force themselves to do that.

And then if you go over to verse 21, I’ve run into this time and time again. You know, “I’m trying to get rid of my attachment.” Well, good luck.

A friend of mine who’s a fairly well known Zen teacher, her husband was going to have brain surgery. And she called me up and she was a bit concerned about it. She said, “My practice isn’t complete yet. I’m not ready to lose my husband.” And I said to her, “Are you nuts?” [Laughs] “What kind of practice is that, that you’re ready to lose your husband? That’s not a practice. That makes you into a robot.” You know, you have no human feeling then.

And another Zen teacher who’s just a delight, she’s got an absolutely wicked sense of humor. She announced over dinner once, that she had to give up her personality for the sake of pure Zen. And this is absolute nonsense in my book. That’s why I’m not naming any names. [Laughs]. Okay. So, we encounter adversity in our life, and it’s hard. It really, really is hard. You know, as it says, “down and out, held in contempt,” you have no money, you don’t know how you’re going to make ends meet, and your friends leave you standing on the sidewalk, so to speak. These things hurt. And they trigger survival stuff in us. And it’s really, really challenging. And this instruction is not a way to make things better. A lot of people think, “Well, if I just meditate more, it’ll make things better.” Very unlikely.

Staying sane in difficult circumstances

Ken: It’s a way of staying sane in these very difficult situations. And that’s the point here. And I know this from my own experience in the three-year retreat, when I didn’t do this very well, but I got the idea. I was very ill and in a tremendous amount of pain for a long period of time. And there were very long stretches where all I could do was basically curl up and do taking and sending. I couldn’t do any other practice.

And I would just sit there in pain going, “Breathing in, may I take all the suffering of the world into mine. Breathing out whatever joy—I don’t feel any joy, but just in case there is some—I’m sending it out there. Pain? Yeah, I got lots of pain. Okay, we can take that, that I can relate to. Joy? No, there’s no joy. Okay, I’ll just go through the motions anyway.” And as long I was doing that, I maintained some kind of sanity in all of that.

And, maybe that was helpful. I don’t know. Years later, I reread Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind, which is a wonderful book. And in it, Suzuki Roshi talks about the four horses. Now, this is a sutra from the Middle Length Discourses in the Pali canon. And the sutra reads, some people who practice dharma are like a horse who, you tell him to gallop, he just gallops. And some people who practice dharma are like a horse that when you raise the whip, he gallops. And other people, their practice of dharma is that they’re like the horse who doesn’t gallop until he feels the whip hit his flank, skin. And then there are some people who practice the dharma, their way of practicing dharma, they’re like the horse who doesn’t move until he feels the pain of the whip in the marrow of his bones.

And Suzuki Roshi says, “When we hear the story, we always want to be the first kind of horse. And if we can’t be the first kind of horse, you want to be the second kind of horse.” Well, I wasn’t the first horse. I wasn’t the second horse, and I wasn’t even the third horse. Suzuki Roshi then goes on to say—I love it—”Which horse do you think Buddha will have more compassion for, the first, the second, the third, or fourth?” And then he goes on to say, “In your practice, you’ll probably find that the fourth horse is the most useful.”

When you’re in a lot of pain, that’s a really, really bitter pill to swallow. But it’s true, because when things are really, really difficult, you have to bring all your resources, everything that you can, just to stay sane. And what Suzuki Roshi writes is: “Through your very imperfections and difficulties, you’ll find your firm, way-seeking mind.” And that is what is really important.

You say, “Oh, this is what I’m doing in my practice. This is what life is about for me.” And you get really, really clear about that. And it becomes instilled in you very, very deeply. And when that happens, it doesn’t matter what happens in your life, you know your way. It doesn’t make everything easy. I’m not saying that. But you know what is fundamental in you, and you have an idea of how to navigate it. So, this is very, very different from trying to make everything really nice, really pure, all perfect, etc., etc. But this is a very, very deeply ingrained tendency.

Forget about pure samadhi

Ken: So, the way this applies to meditation practice is—and I know I’m going totally against the grain of a number of my Western colleagues—forget about having absolute pure samadhi. You know, forget about it. There’re always going to be adjustments in your practice. How many of you enjoy bicycle riding? Okay. Now, when you’re riding a bicycle, are you ever perfectly in balance? Never. When you first start riding a bicycle, you’re going like this, and you can barely stay up. But even when you’re an expert rider and you can go very, very fast, there’s always a little bit of motion back and forth. Now you have a lot of forces which keep you in play. The faster you go, the gyroscopic effect of the wheels keeps you up, etc. And you just learn to balance that with your weight. But you’re never actually in balance. You’re always going back and forth, even though there may be only a millimeter. Well, meditation is like that.

We have in meditation, the stability side and the clarity side. And the stability side is undermined by busyness in thinking. And the clarity side is undermined by dullness, thick mind. And whenever we just let things rest, we tend to slip into dullness. And whenever we try to wake things up, we start thinking. So, it’s just like riding a bike. It’s never perfect, but little by little, you’re able to work these two together, going back and forth. But if you try to make it absolutely pure, it’s like trying to hold your bike absolutely rigidly steady so it doesn’t move at all when you ride it, it doesn’t move from side to side at all. If you do that, you’ll crash very quickly.

So, we’re going to do a period of meditation now, and I’d just like you to take the ideas in each of these. If things are difficult in your lives—and I know that’s true for some of you—open to the pain of the world. Not with a sense of making things better or anything like that, just taking in the suffering of others. And you may find it helps you to be in your own difficulty more completely, in a more sane way. If things are going well for you, don’t think this is real life. It can all disappear in a moment. And watch for that tendency. I mean, how many of you, when you practice, your mind is just going so smoothly? You know, you start feeling like, “Oh, I finally got it.” How long does that last [laughs]?

So, you can interpret this internally as well. When you’re meditating, how many of you fight with your thoughts? Yeah. How does that go? So, don’t fight with thoughts. And this goes back to what I was talking about yesterday. We’re talking about silence and sound, but we can talk about stillness and movement in exactly the same way. Even though thoughts arise in the mind, there’s still stillness there. And we tend to forget the stillness when thoughts arise. So, don’t worry about thoughts arising, just rest in the stillness. It’s there. You follow?

And sometimes we have insights or experiences that arise in meditation and we think, “Oh, that’s so cool.” Or, “That’s so neat.” Or, “That’s exactly where I want to go.” And then we try to grab after it. And the moment we try to grab after it, we’ve stepped out of the meditation practice and we’re just like a person who is drinking salty water, we need more and more. Things come and things go. So, let things come and go on their own. So, let’s just try those ideas in practice for a few minutes.