Moving into balance


Ken: This afternoon I want to talk about why, when you move in the direction of balance, you end up more out of balance. Anybody have this experience? Think, “Oh, this is what I need to do in this situation.” You do it. And things get worse. There’s a reason for this. And the reason, a good bit of the time, is that we don’t open, or we aren’t aware of what’s actually going on in us. Now I think this morning or yesterday, I gave the example of this person who was shocked when that student of mine just said “No,” in the conversation. That is, you aren’t allowed to do that. And in a lot of social circles, you’re not.

When I was in the three-year retreat in France, there was a Danish person. Actually, he was Dutch, but he lived in Denmark for a long time. And he was extremely direct and blunt. The French had extraordinary difficulty in interacting with him because in French society, you very rarely oppose things directly. That’s not considered polite. I watched these, what we would call, “very elaborate games” being played in which people were having this discussion and disagreeing with each other, but you would never know it from listening to the conversation. But when you understood how to read the subtext, you’d get it. So when this Danish-Dutch person was just very, very direct, the French were completely at a loss to how to respond, because to meet that directness just as it is, would be inexcusably rude, and they didn’t have anything else in the repertoire. So it made for some interesting interactions now and then. They’d just sort of sit there in shock, shaking, and then be really, really angry.

So, we have all kinds of such agendas operating in us. Some of them are ways that we’ve learned to just interact with people on the social level. They can be more or less mutable. Others are far less mutable because we developed certain ways of interacting, which at certain points in our lives was the only way we knew how to survive, how to get through a certain situation. And it just became the way we operated whenever those buttons were pushed. Or the way that we do operate, whenever those buttons are pushed. And it prevents a lot of other stuff from happening.

Now we’ve talked about feeling the wound. When we run into a situation in which the appropriate response is something contrary to the way that we ordinarily function, then to move in the direction of that response is going to excite or trigger all of those old feelings, that way of acting has been set up to avoid. That is just going to be right there.

This will translate into the way we position our body, our posture, and the way we move, that will translate into how we feel. And it certainly translates into the stories we tell ourselves about the situation.

Encountering our sub-personalities

Ken: In many respects, it’s like there are a number of sub-personalities operating in us. And they’re a bit like the giants and the dragons and the soldiers in the story that Jeff’s been telling. They’re asleep most of the time. And then something happens and they wake up. And they just start to run. Now what’s very important is that these sub-personalities, they usually only have one or two scripts. They aren’t very flexible. And they can’t take in what’s actually happening. All they know is that they’ve been turned on and now they just run. Any of you ever encountered this?

And they have a very specific function. Their function is to dissipate attention so that what they originally developed to protect is never felt. How many of you remember the story of Sleeping Beauty? This is exactly what Sleeping Beauty is about. She was cursed and goes into the sleep for 100 years. And this hedge grows up. The original version of Sleeping Beauty is not called Sleeping Beauty. That was Disney’s contribution. It was called Briar Rose because this huge hedge grows up to protect her. And it’s impenetrable. It’s so dense. The prince here represents the operation of attention. And he has to hack his way through this very, very dense hedge. But the purpose of the hedge is to keep things as they are, everybody asleep.

Time will tell. One has to remember that, you know. Chou-en Lai was famous for being asked on the 200th anniversary of the French revolution, “Do you think it was a success?” And his supposed reply is, “It’s too early to tell.”

So, one of the things that Jeff and I are trying to do in this retreat is to translate these ideas into physical movement exercises, so do you actually feel the operation of these things. This is requiring a little experimentation on our part, but most of you have been to retreats with me before know full well that you’re guinea pigs. So we’re going to try another little exercise and we’ll see. Maybe it’ll work. Maybe it won’t. Who knows? So Dave, I’d like to use you today. You can stand up. Yeah. We’re going to do the push hands back-to-back.

Push hands exercise

Dave: Back-to-back?

Ken: Yeah. Just back to back. Okay. So the object here is to push each other over slowly. I was just having it there for a little extra stimulation. So, I don’t want you to move fast, no sudden movements. We just are going to try and push each other over. Notice how slowly he’s moving. He’s trying to find a way in. Ahh see. He’s let me get under him. Right. Come back. So do it again. So you’re just going to see, he may try to do the same thing. He is trying to do the same thing. He thinks he can do it, but he’s overextended. Haven’t you? Okay. Now I haven’t finished yet. What’s happening in you that this is happening? Shall I tell you? You’re trying too hard. Don’t try. I haven’t been trying at all. You’ve done all the work. Oh, I see. Now it gets a little trickier because I almost fell backwards right there. See he’s trying to pull me in now. That’s a little different, isn’t it Dave? Yeah. I see. So you have this whole game here that’s being played. Now we’re actually pushing against each other and we can go back and forth like this. That’s a little dangerous because somebody could just break the rhythm. Ah, there he goes. Then you have to maintain contact. You can’t just pull away suddenly. How are your thighs doing?

Dave: They are getting tired.

Ken: Yeah. Mine too. Okay. So when he stopped trying to do it, everything changed. Did you see the difference? It felt different. Yeah. Okay. So pick somebody who’s about the same physical build as you. In the bigger picture it doesn’t matter at all, but pick someone who’s about the same physical build. And you do this very slowly. Yeah. The caring guy. That’s good. You can have Dave. Dave, do you have a partner? Okay. Yeah. There we go. It’s just straight back to back. Yeah. Bend your knees. So you’re actually leaning against each other. I suggest you have one foot slightly in front of the other.

Now, if I can have your attention, please. Very slowly. You’re going to push him over. He’s going to push you over. Very slowly. Do you have a partner? Yes, you do.

Yes, but now she can take your root away very easily just by stepping back. Just step back into it.

Okay. Can everybody stop please? Okay. Just everybody stop. So what are you experiencing right now? Okay. So we’ve introduced an element of competition here. How much of that is running the show? 80 percent, right? Well, what was that cry I heard, Kim? “I hate that strategy.” So, it was just like five percent competition, right?

Kim: Well, there was a purpose, and it was fun.

Ken: Yeah, but you understand what I mean? All that competition is suddenly starting to run. Now. What happened to Dave when he got into that competition thing? Okay. He fell out of balance. So you might remember this. Be in the experience, explore the possibilities. Guy?

Guy: Does that mean being prepared to lose?

Ken: I’m going to leave that for you to explore. There is an intention, but you observed that to get locked up in that intention is a path to defeat. How many of you can relate to that in your lives? Sonia. Microphone, please.

Sonia: I’m going back to the original comment. Stick to your intention.

Ken: Well, did I stick to my intention with Dave?

Sonia: Yeah. But you talked about getting locked in intention.

Ken: Yes.

Sonia: So not frozen in intention. But moving in intention.

Ken: There are other things going on. See what happens when we introduced this competitive element, all of that old stuff comes up and Guy named one piece of it: “Oh, I might lose!” There’s the wound. Okay. I didn’t know what was going to happen with it. I’ve never done this exercise with Dave before. I had no idea. I could have gone flying through the floor. So I was just going to go there and feel it out. Then I discovered he did all the work for me, which was so kind of you. I mean, my intention was there, but by just being in the intention and the experience, all kinds of possibilities open up.

Student: Like yielding can allow you to win which is what you did that other time.

Ken: He wants to go there. Okay. You can go there. Okay. So yes …

Student: What was your intention?

Ken: What was my intention?

Student: I wanted to be clear on that.

Ken: Oh, we have to have clear rules. No, the intention is to push the other person over.

Student: But I took the intention was to maintain contact.

Ken: You have to maintain contact. I don’t want you to be suddenly stepping away. Come here, Dave. So here we go. I’m going to push him over. You see. He doesn’t want to push over. Now you see what’s happening here? He’s coming underneath. So I’m just not going to let him. We’re still very much in contact, but now he can’t get underneath And he’s pushing quite hard. So I’m doing the Kerry trick. Yeah. Just letting the push go through and into the legs. Okay. See, and that’s what he’s doing right now. Now if he pushes too hard, he pushes himself off balance. Right. And so I’m just feeling here. And I’m actually staying right in conflicts. Now he’s trying to pull me away. So if I’m going here and I get really pushy, I’m just going to go flying back like that. A little bit.

Student: Not just a trick to step away?

Ken: If you need to adjust your thing like that, that’s fine. But if you’re going, I’m going to move suddenly Dave, just warning you. That’s not. I don’t want that because. Okay. So you’re going to explore and can you stay present without trying to win or lose, and see what happens?

Student: Your intention was to win.

Ken: Yes, but I’m waiting until there’s the actual opportunity to do so.

Dave: It became pretty obvious when I was going to lose.

Ken: And if we go back here and he does the pulling away trick. Okay? Now, if I’m pushing here, like this I’m right off balance. So as soon as I feel him receding, I’ve got to stop right here. If I stop right here, he has to stop too. Do you follow? And we’re doing this back to back. So there’s lots of contact. You can actually feel it.

Okay. Try again. We’re going to introduce another wrinkle in this in a few moments. Bend your knees. Be a little further apart there. Okay. Much more slowly Carolyn and Alan. But don’t fight for your life. Rest in your body. Slower, Kerry. Just explore. Now Guy, instead of pushing back, root. Do you know what I mean? Okay. Just let him push you a little further so that you can push straight down. Try not to talk. Everybody. No talking. No talking. Excuse me, everybody. No talking, please. Just explore it. Okay. You guys are wrestling. Just stop. Stop. Do it with me Kerry. Yeah. Okay. Now that’s all you need to do. Now do you see, he’s pushing very hard. Do you see what I’m doing Guy? It’s just going through there. How much effort am I exerting?

Guy: Yeah. Not much.

Ken: Okay. Let go Kerry, I don’t want you going back. See how to do it? Okay. And you don’t have to push that hard. Just feel. Just feel and feel. Be present in everything that is happening in you. Again. No talking please. Be present with everything that is happening in you. The fear, the anxiety, the thrill. Okay.

Take a break. Was that better? Again, no talking, please. You can see how much stuff this is pushing. That’s why you’re wanting to talk so much. Instead of talking, feel what’s happening in you. Because the purpose of the talking is to get that out. So you don’t have to feel it. Make use of it. What is all of that? Ah, you know. Fear, anxiety, glee, joy, guilt, shame. You know, it’s all there. Now do you ever encounter that when you’re in a conflict situation? Okay. So take this opportunity to actually experience it.

Now do we have enough spoons? 18. Okay. So take a spoon. Don’t have quite enough for everybody, but it doesn’t matter. Make sure at least one person in each partner has a spoon. One in each. Yeah. And if you both have spoons, that’s fine. Now come up here and fill your spoon with water. No, no, just dip it in. Okay. So just fill your spoon was water. It doesn’t have to be filled filled. Just have some in it.

A variation on push hands

Student: A drop will do?

Ken: Ahh. A little more than a drop. That’s good. Here we go. Everybody got water in their spoon? There’s something vaguely obscene about that line, but I can’t figure out what it is.

Okay. Go back to your partner and do this exercise. If you spill the water you lose. If you spill the water and when you lose then switch. No, no, just do it. You take turns. Back to back. Same as before. Slow down. Okay. Come back for a refill. Change the spoon. Okay. Just no talking again. Whatever’s there. Feel it. Slow down Guy and Jim. Okay. You can drink the water in your spoon. Take that. Wash them up. All right. Did you try it? Have you tried it? We’ll try it again. Just for a moment or two. Okay. Everybody take a seat. Just again no talking. We’ll just put them on the floor. There. That’ll be fine. Put all the spoons down there. Make a difference Kerry?

Kerry: Yeah, I was watching this. People are moving in and around and about. Nobody is worried that I’m going to fall over.

Ken: Okay. Have a seat. Okay. Was there a difference? Okay. We have one mic here. Where’s the other? I don’t know which number it is. What number is it, Guy?

Guy: Three.

Ken: Okay. Was there a difference?

Student: Yeah, it was actually easier. Or I felt I was more effective with the spoon because there was less of a tight focus.

Ken: Okay. Anybody else? Sonia?

Sonia: It felt more cooperative. I felt more with my partner. I knew she was holding a spoon. I had a spoon. How could neither of us drop the water?

Ken: How could you push her over?

Sonia: How could we not drop the water? Pushing over became secondary.

Ken: Christina?

Christina: We only had one spoon between us. So we had to take turns with it. And when I had the spoon, I was less focused on pushing him over then I was on just staying steady. I wasn’t working very hard and I could have stood there all day. And he gave up. He did. He quit.

Ken: Anybody else. Kim. And then Joe. Dave, could you pass the microphone to Joe, please?

Kim: It was exactly the same as she just said, that I wasn’t working very hard at all. And I must’ve been focused on the spoon. I don’t even feel that I was really, but I could certainly feel what he was doing and not doing with his body. That was totally different from before. And much more yielding, kind of.

Ken: Yeah. Jill?

Jill: I think I had about the exact opposite experience. I felt more easily tipped over with the spoon. Then when I didn’t have the spoon, I was less engaged, I think. I was more focused on the spoon.

Ken: And so less focused on. Okay. Sophie back here. And then Pat.

Sophie: I felt the same because I was focusing on the contact of her back against my back. And so when it felt too much, I would back off and then she would go the other way. And so in both cases, I was focusing on the sensation of her body against mine. So it felt the same.

Ken: Okay. Anybody else? Jeff, what did you observe?

Jeff: What I saw in a lot of cases was what some of you expressed already. People settled. They dropped into their whole experience in their bodies. When they added the spoon the focus became the water and not the winning. Even though a lot of you continued with the intention of pushing someone else over, you dropped more into the experience.

Ken: Okay. So there’s a variety of reactions. One of the things that several of you have mentioned is that when you had this extra thing in there, holding the spoon, the winning-losing thing, didn’t run the same way. Didn’t run the same way, because there’s a higher level of attention. It wasn’t in everybody’s case. You focused, Joel. You focused so completely on the spoon that you were kind of out of it. And so it was more difficult for you. And that’s something else that can happen. And for Sophie, not so much different. But for many of you, I saw the same thing: you slowed down. You had to be more in the experience. How often does the agenda of winning or losing corrupt your intention? What’s going on Betty?

Betty: I would say 98 percent? 99?

Ken: 98 percent of the time. So, this is something you can relate to.

Betty: Oh yes. Oh yes.

Power is the ability to implement intention

Ken: Okay. So you have an intention. Power we’ve talked about in various ways. It’s the ability to implement intention. That’s one way we’ve talked about it. We’ve also talked about it as staying present in action.

Going back to some of our earlier discussions, I talked about the acceleration that occurs when one starts engaging power, which takes you right out of one’s experience. How many experienced that with this exercise without the spoon? Well, all of you did, I was watching. You have that intention. You start exerting a little force and suddenly everything’s just running like crazy. And you aren’t in the experience. Know what I mean, Carolyn? No. No.

Okay. We have this spoon. For many of you, it raises the level of attention because now you have to be more in your body and not just in that push, etc. And other possibilities open up. In such situations it becomes more possible to implement intention, maybe not quite on the timeframe or agenda that you originally had in mind. When Dave and I were demonstrating at the beginning, how did the agenda to win quickly operate in your interests?

Dave: In my interest? Well my legs got tired toward the end, so if someone wanted … taking the strategy of just extending and staying with it would wear out my legs and I would lose that way. Yeah.

Ken: But if you tried to win quickly, it didn’t work, did it?

Dave: No, because I would take chances that didn’t make sense.

Ken: So, when you want to implement your intention, you can’t just focus on what you want to do. You have to take in the whole environment—what is happening in that environment. Guy?

Guy: I’m just wondering what the relationship is between having an intention and being emotionally invested in the intention? In other words … I’m just underscoring what you’re saying is that you could have the intention to win, but still have equanimity about it to some degree. Or still feel like, “Well, it’s okay if I don’t realize my intention,” rather than, “My intention is to win and I must win for emotional reasons.” I don’t know if that is useful.

Ken: Well, it is. If you have to win, the number of possible actions open to you is limited, right? And you may miss by limiting yourself that way, ways of operating in the situation which will actually implement your intention in a way that you can’t see right now. So when I was doing it with Dave, I didn’t know that he was kindly going to come over my back so I could destroy his root. If I’d been intent on winning, I would never have seen that possibility, but I just went, “Huh?” There it was. Yes.

Student: Can you give a practical everyday example of a situation where an obsession with winning might blind a person?

Ken: Possibilities?

Student: I have one.

Ken: Go ahead.

Student: Well, think of the financial situation right now, the CEO’s of companies that could have exited and found partners before the situation got too dire, but they were so intent on remaining independent, which was their definition of victory, that they could see no other possibilities until there were none and they no longer existed.

Ken: This is exactly what happened to Lehman Brothers. And I think also Washington Mutual.

Student: Can you give another example? I didn’t want to get into it as a history, but I don’t find that convincing.

Ken: This goes to what Jeff was talking about earlier in this retreat. Secondary agendas. Secondary agendas tend to define or limit the ways that that intention can be implemented. Do you follow?

Jeff: The way it looks to me is your intention is to win. But if there’s a “or else such and such will happen” agenda attached onto that, that fires off the emotional piece. You can be really intending to win, you fully commit to it. And you use the strategy that is available to you. You sink right into the experience, but if you have to win or else your dad still won’t like you, then that brings a whole edge to it where you can’t really be present in the situation.

Ken: I give you another example, and this is something that happened. An attorney had taken on a case in which a woman had set up a trust fund with an accounting firm. One of the partners in the accounting firm had made use of that money to fund a friend’s investment plan, some kind of development deal, and it had fallen through. And the money was dispersed all over the place. And by the time the woman found out about this, there was a lot of money missing. We’re talking millions of dollars. And the attorney had the partner of the accounting firm, and the accounting firm. They didn’t have any recourse. They were going to have to repay the money, but that was going to take a very long time. The attorney also knew that this particular partner probably had a pretty good idea where some of the money still was, but he had absolutely no leverage to get him to tell. So what he did was he met with the partner and his attorney and said—rather than trying to force him to tell, that’s what I mean about a certain way of winning—he simply said to him, “You know, you’ve done wrong. You know that you and your partners are going to be paying for this for the next 15, 20 years. I suspect you know where some of the money is. And I know I have no leverage to get that information out of you. The only thing left here is how you’re going to explain this to your children, and how you’re going to live with this for the rest of your life. I’m going to leave the room. You think about this. I’m going to come back in 15 minutes and you can tell me what you want to do.” He left, came back, and got far more information than he ever expected. Is that a better example for you?

Student: Yeah, that’s good enough.

Ken: Dave?

Dave: The phrase that I had thought of before that story was winning at all costs as being the opposite. And I think that that notion sort of comes into play. What are the limits that are sort of above and beyond the competition itself? Something, some other context.

Ken: This is a very important point. All action, all implementation of intention takes place within a context. And when one ignores the context, and this is what you’re talking about, winning at all costs, then you become intent on that. And often disaster unfolds because you’re not taking into account. There’s another exercise I often do with people and actually we can do it right now, except we aren’t well set up for this. So I’ll just tell you about it. Divide everybody up into pairs and they put their arms in the position of arm wrestling. And everybody’s told every time the back of somebody’s hand touches the table, you get a point. Whoever gets the most points wins. Now what happens most of the time is that everybody starts to arm wrestle. Every now and then there’s a team which understands. And they just go bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and they get hundreds of points in a very short period of time. They don’t take in the whole context. Yes.

Steve: Yeah. It just reminds me of what I think is one of the clearest explanations of this for me is, for example, with athletes. When Michael Jordan had three seconds left to win the game, at that point, what he has to do is he has to make a perfect jump shot. So the focus, right then can’t be winning because then he’s not making a perfect jump shot. So that’s where for me, I translate this that if you, if it is just winning, you lose the very experience that you’re doing. So when he’s doing that, what makes him such a great athlete, or like Tiger Woods, I think is at that point, they’re not winning, losing, they’re doing the best they can possibly do at that moment. All his training. Then he wins. But at that moment, I think those are the people who stop thinking about winning or losing.

Ken: Yes. And this is implementing intention. I think that’s a good example, Steve. His intention is to put the ball in the basket. That’s it. And that’s all that’s there. If he’s thinking about winning at that point then his attention won’t be in that. Okay. I think it’s time for the next chapter.

Jeff: There’s an arm waving over there at the end of Sophie’s body.

Ken: Oh. Is it attached to her body?

Jeff: It was a pretty good merger. Yeah. Okay.

Student: I was just curious when in our meditation practice, what correlates to the spoon?

Trying to “win” when you meditate


Ken: Ah. Thank you very much for this one. How many of you try to win in your meditation practice? No, no, take this seriously. How many of you try to win in your meditation practice? How’s it going? So a few years ago there were a couple of business guys who would come to retreats. You know, Dave and Pat. Pat is a very bright guy and he knows how to tweak Dave very well. So at the beginning of one of the retreats, they’re sitting over there. Because Dave’s super competitive, Pat just whispers in Dave’s ear, “Who do you think is going to win the retreat?” And for the rest of the retreat, Dave was obsessed with developing the right metrics.

So, but all of us try to win at meditation. Okay. What constitutes at winning meditation? No, no, no, no. How many thinks sitting still? See how that is. That’s winning at meditation. How many of you think having no thoughts is winning at meditation? Right? How many of you think having a certain experience is winning at meditation? Okay. How’s it going? Okay. Maybe you should hold a spoon while you meditate? You might think about that. But anyway, so the practice of meditation is experiencing what is there. It’s not going to stop you from trying to win but … Jeff.

The White Bird: part 5


Jeff: So, our prince.

Ken: And you notice he’s been trying to win.

Jeff: He’s had another harrowing experience because an agenda from the past came up this time with the sword and his choice of the scabbard. And he’s managed to make his escape again. But he’s in hock for another deal he’s got to fulfill. So he is on his horse and he’s galloping towards the black mountain where he can find the white bird. And again, his faithful horse companion carries him very, very far until finally they come in sight of the huge black mountain. There’s nothing growing on the mountain. It’s utterly devoid of life. Nothing green. No plants. No animals. It is covered with just black round stones. Just black stones all over the mountain. These are the remains of the others that came to search for the white bird. They didn’t make it up the mountain.

He looks to the top of the mountain and he sees an old shriveled witch. This witch has golden hair. So it’s quite a combination. A shriveled old witch with golden hair. So he’s at a loss what to do here. So he opens up his book and the book tells him: “Whoever wants to gain the white bird must grab the witch by her hair and hold fast for then she must do whatever he asks. But he has to be very careful going up the mountain, for if she sees him before he can take hold of her hair, he too will be turned into a stone.”

He is in another one of these situations. That’s all fine and good. But how do I get up the mountain? So he turns the page and the book tells him: “Crack the egg of the white hen and then inside you’ll find a hat, put it on.” So he does, cracks it open, a little tiny hat with a nice feather, he puts on the hat. Immediately, he turns into a tiny titmouse, the tiniest bird in the land. And he flies and flies and flies all the way up to the top of the mountain. Just a little tiny bird. And he lands behind the witch, takes off his hat, turns back into himself and immediately grabs her by the hair. And she starts shrieking and swearing and struggling, twisting, turning, trying to get away, but he holds fast. And finally she asks, “All right, you’ve come to disturb my peace. What do you want of me?” And he says, “I want the white bird that’s resting in your hand.” And she starts just going off on that one. She says, “No way he’s going to have that bird.” And she’s carrying on for a long time. And then he just holds on. Doesn’t give in. So imagine you’re holding this witch by the hair and she’s shrieking right at you, spitting at you, but you’re just staying firm with what your intention is.

Ken: How many of you have encountered this witch?

Jeff: Standing firm. And finally she agrees and he takes the white bird in his hand and it immediately turns into the most beautiful woman with the whitest skin that he’s ever seen. But still he doesn’t let go. “What else do you want?” “Well you must turn all of those stones back into the people who are looking for the white bird.” So she does. And suddenly the hillside is covered with all these people that had come looking for the white bird. Still he won’t let go. He says, “You must agree to never hurt myself or anyone who passes in the future.” She agrees. He lets go. So he takes out that barley straw, mounts up his horse again. The white bird climbs on behind him. And off they go back towards the black castle.

Student: The white bird is a woman at this point.

Jeff: It’s time for dinner.

Student: [Unclear]

Ken: British? Titmouse is a British bird. Ok, a couple of things …