Opening prayers

Michael: Not being able to be here, although I’ve listened online. As you all know, this is an incredible privilege and a wonderful opportunity to look at a remarkable, if puzzling and baffling sutra. And I’m just so appreciative to you, Ken, for doing this. And I’ve already gained so much, and now I get to enjoy the live vibe, which is just the best. So we’ll have some announcements at the end at the end of upcoming stuff. But once again, just welcome. Thank you for being here.

Ken: Thank you. Well, we have a fair amount of ground to cover this evening. Twenty-one chapters. So let’s jump in.

May my heart turn to practice
May practice become a path
may this path dissolve confusion
May confusion become wisdom

Knowing there is nothing outside or inside to free me,
I seek sanctuary in buddha
Knowing that experience and awareness are not two,
I seek sanctuary in dharma
Knowing there is nothing to grasp or oppose,
I seek sanctuary in Sangha

Knowing there is nothing outside or inside to free me,
I seek sanctuary in buddha
Knowing that experience and awareness are not two,
I seek sanctuary in dharma
Knowing there is nothing to grasp or oppose,
I seek sanctuary in sangha

Knowing there is nothing outside or inside to free me,
I seek sanctuary in buddha
Knowing that experience and awareness are not two,
I seek sanctuary in dharma
Knowing there is nothing to grasp or oppose,
I seek sanctuary in sangha.

Beings are numberless: may I free them all.
Reactions are endless: may I release them all.
Door to experience are infinite: may I enter them all.
Ways of awakening are limitless: may I know them all.

Beings are numberless: may I free them all.
Reactions are endless: may I release them all.
Doors to experience are infinite: may I enter them all.
Ways of awakening are infinite: may I know them all.

Beings are numberless: may I free them all.
Reactions are endless: may I release them all.
Doors to experience are infinite: may I enter them all.
Ways of awakening are limitless: may I know them all.

Contemporary Session Prayers

That’s interesting. I printed out the wrong version. Okay. This evening, this is our last class. We’re not going to cover every chapter in the Diamond Sutra or anything like that. And to be honest, that actually wasn’t my aim in this, given the time frame and everything. So, I want to look at two sections, and also possibly start with a question. Is there any particular section—and I’m thinking of those who have been reading the sutra on a regular basis—that stands out, grabs your attention, that you would find some exploration would be interesting?

Student questions

Student: I’ve been curious about the five eyes.

Ken: Ah, dear. Yes, the five eyes. Okay. Which section is that?

Student: It’s toward the back. Like two thirds in.

Ken: That far. I actually numbered the sections this time.

Student: Eighteen.

Ken: Eighteen. Okay. Very good. Anybody else? Any particulars? Yes.

Student: So, it’s a phrase that comes up several times, “the transformation of a world” and talking about that. Like, “If any bodhisattva should say ‘I shall bring about the transformation of a world,’ that would be untrue.” It appears near the end. Also near the start. Yeah.

Ken: It comes up again towards the end?

Student: Yeah, yeah.

Ken: Okay. Well, this is very good. So, we’re going to do 10, 18. If you can find the section number for the transformation of the world then we’ll pick it up directly from that. Otherwise I’ll do a little riff on it.

Student: I think it’s ten.

Ken: It’s ten. Well, there is one in 10. Yes. There are several themes which crop up two or three times throughout the sutra. And then we’re going to do the last section. And the reasoning here is section 10 of the sutra is probably the reason why the sutra became so central in Chinese Buddhism. If you have read Huineng’s The Platform Sutra, the autobiographical section, he is drawn to the dharma. He gets a job pounding rice and he overhears someone chanting the 10th section and he wakes up. And that leads him to engage in the verse contest, which leads to him being recognized as the next patriarch, then he has to flee the monastery, otherwise he would have been killed because he was nobody at that point. And one thing led to another. One of his assailants eventually catches up to him and before he can say anything, Huineng looks at him and says, “Show me your face before you were born,” which is probably among the first of the koans that has ever was ever recorded. And all of this goes back to section 10 of the of the sutra.

I’m reading from my own translation, which I have now completed. At least I’ve completed the first draft. Over the next few months, I’ll be revising it and writing a commentary on it. I’m hoping that it will be published around April next year, though I’m not going to make any promises about that. Section ten.

The multiple meanings of dharma

Ken:

The Most Honored asked, “Subhuti, what do you think? Did the Thus Come receive any experience from the Thus Come, the Conqueror, the Full and Complete Buddha Dipamkara?”

Subhuti replied, “No, indeed, Most Honored. There is no experience that the Thus Come received from the Thus Come, the Conqueror, the Full and Complete Buddha Dipamkara.”

The Most Honored said, “Subhuti, if some bodhisattva says, ‘I will create many beautifully designed domains of awakening,’ what he says would not be true. Why is that? Because Subhuti, of what are called beautifully designed domains of awakening, the Thus Come has said that they have no beautiful design. Thus, they are called ‘beautifully designed domains of awakening.’ Subhuti, for this reason, bodhisattva mahasattvas should give rise to intentions that are not set like this, intentions that are not set in any way. Intentions that are not set in form. Intentions that are not set in sound or smell or taste or touch or even concept.”

Subhuti, say, for example, someone has a such and such a physical presence. Say it is like Mount Meru, the king of mountains. Subhuti, what do you think? Would that be a large physical presence?

Subhuti replied, “Most Honored, yes that would be a large physical presence. Why is that? Because the Thus Come has said it lacks substance. Therefore it is called a physical presence. The Thus Come saying it lacks substance is why it is called a physical presence.”

Now this is a very typical example of the way the author of the Diamond Sutra has chosen to point to things, and there are a few things which it may be helpful to explicate a bit. Buddha Dipamkara, a mythical buddha—I think he’s the first Buddha of this kalpa. There’s meant to be a thousand buddhas in this kalpa, and Buddha Shakyamuni is the fourth. I think Dipamkara is the first, but he may be even from a previous era. I’m not 100% sure about that.

This exchange about Dipamkara is very important, and it’s also completely impossible to translate because it uses this word dharma, and it is not clear whether dharma in this context means duty, teaching, instruction, the truth, or experience. Those are five of the ten meanings of the word dharma. So, it makes sense if you read any of those in that way. And we don’t have an English word which covers this in a nice way, all those different meanings.

So, Buddha asks: “Subhuti, did the Thus Come receive any teaching from Dipamkara?” Did he receive any transmission? Did he receive any experience? Did he receive any instruction? Just fill in whichever term? I’ve chosen to translate it as experience for a reason. I’m not sure, but I know it’s one of the meanings. I’m not sure it is traditionally regarded as the correct meaning, but I like what it does. Let’s put it this way:

Did the Buddha receive any special experience from Dipamkara? Subhuti replies, “No indeed, Most honored. There is no special experience that the Buddha received from Dipamkara.”

Did the Buddha receive any special experience from Dipamkara? Subhuti replies, “No indeed, Most honored. There is no special experience that the Buddha received from Dipamkara.” What do you make of that? Rather than what do you make of that, when I say that, what happens in you? I’ll say it again.

Did the Buddha receive any special experience from Dipamkara? No, the Buddha did not receive any special experience from Dipamkara.

Did the Buddha receive any special experience from Dipamkara? No, the Buddha did not receive any special experience from Dipamkara.

The experience of mind stopping

Student: My first impression was the sense of no buddha.

Ken: What happened before that? What happened before that? Between the time that I read this and the time that that thought formed in your mind, or that impression. What happened before? Do you want me to say it again?

Student: Please.

Ken: Did the Buddha receive any special experience from Dipamkara? No, the Buddha did not receive any special experience from Dipamkara. Right there. Yes. What’s that?

Student: Confusion. Not knowing.

Ken: Those are two different things. And they probably both occurred. Which occurred first.

Student: Not knowing.

Ken: Yes. Okay. I’m going to trace this through one more time. I’m going to read it one more time because there are four things that happen in there. They happen a little bit fast. So a little bit difficult to pick out. But you’ve got two of them now. See if you can pick up the others. Are you ready? This applies to everybody here. Did the Buddha receive any special experience from Dipamkara? No,the Buddha did not receive any special experience from Dipamkara. Yes. Say it.

Student: It blanks. It stops.

Ken: Yes. This is what the Diamond Sutra is doing over and over again. You get these contradictions and the mind just stops. Okay, that’s a pointing out instruction. And we’ve covered this in the last two classes in several ways before. But this is this is what happens. Now, the mind stops. Then what happens? Yes.

Student: The cognitive … conception starts.

Ken: No, that’s two more steps

Student: It’s more of a feeling.

Ken: Yes.

Student: Maybe because I’ve been pretty good at reading this over the past six weeks, I’ve kind of gotten a little bit more used to. It’s okay.

Ken: Yes, this is very good. Now what actually happens? This is subtle stuff. It’s not easy.

Student: Yes, it’s very fast.

Ken: It is.

Student: I’m sorry. What happens where? I’m not located.

Ken: There’s the stopping. What happens next? Do you want me to go over it again?

Student: It opens. It’s a sense of opening space. It’s a sense of space.

Ken: Yes. And then? [Pause] Yeah. That. Panic?

Student: No.

Ken: Okay, your word for it?

Student: Maybe frustration would be a better word. Maybe there would have been more panicking six weeks ago. Five weeks ago? Yeah. It’s … I’m okay with it.

Ken: Yes, but there is panic. You’re okay with it now. So it isn’t like, “Ah.” And that panic is the first instance of the formation of self. And then there is a scramble. Which I think you’ve been describing as confusion. And then a concept forms. Oh, there’s no Buddha or something like that. Now we’re comfortable again because we’ve got concepts to hang on to. Those four steps go time and time again. Now, you’ve underlined a very important point. You’ve been reading the sutra on a regular basis, and it’s been doing this on a very regular basis. Normally, I don’t know, 45 times, probably in the course of your reading it. So that’s about once a minute. And you’ve got used to this process, which means that you’re beginning to be able to hang out in each of those a little bit longer. This is how the sutra brings out the non-conceptual mind in a way that you can start becoming familiar with it. It’s not something that you can make happen. It’s something that does happen. You don’t have any say in it. The only saying you have in this case is that you decided to read the sutra. And when you do, it happens.

And by going through this again and again, particularly with a clear intention and more than a little faith, that is, you’re willing to embrace this process. You’re willing to meet the unknown, which is what I feel faith is in the end. And this is how the sutra begins to work on you. This makes sense to you?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: And so it is a it is a way of forming a relationship and building a capacity in non-conceptual knowing. Now, I had great fun translating this because I was going through this process again and again, and really going through it. I want to try a little bit of experiment. Now, I’m going to read it and put in one of the other words and see what happens. Okay.

Did the thus come receive the truth from Dipamkara? No, the thus come did not receive the truth from Dipamkara.

Now there are a couple of nonverbal comments on this.

Student: Hmm. That was my comment. I’m forming words now to go with that.

Ken: Describe what happened.

Student: Yeah. It felt like that word or that image of receiving the truth or the words just sort of washed over me in a very strong way. Just sort of like—

Ken: And what happened when those words washed over you?

Student: There was a blank moment, sort of like being under a wave and feeling it pass over me, and then I came back up to the surface. And then I’m thinking about.

Ken: So sorry to hear that.

Student: I know it’s terrible. Then I started thinking about, “Oh, who’s this Dipamkara fellow and who’s this Buddha fellow? And who are all these people around me anyways?” But yeah, yeah, but there was a moment of just like—

Ken: So that’s the stopping.

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Okay. Person behind you.

Student questions

Student: Just a question. Is that birth in dependent origination in the Pali Canon?

Ken: No. Actually, it’s the moment before ignorance asserts itself. Okay. This is out of the wheel, the cycle, the twelve links. There are two principal entry points into the twelve links. Because most of the twelve links just go really fast. The one that has traditionally been used—I want to be careful how I say this—but one is before the arising of desire. And that leads to a life of renunciation or withdrawal. So you try to reduce desire as much as possible and create the opening. The other is between death and before consciousness arises again. So, that’s why I say, before ignorance reasserts itself. And that entry point characterizes the Mahayana. If you’re going to talk about the twelve links, that’s the entry point. So that’s where you try to break the operation of the cycle. And that’s why koan practice or shikantaza in Zen, and in the Tibetan tradition, mahamudra and dzogchen, it’s all aimed at that particular entry point. And developing the skill and the stability in attention so that you can recognize it and rest there, and that’s very much what practice is about. Okay. Thank you. Yes.

Student: Have you seen the newest Blade Runner movie?

Ken: No, I haven’t, and I’m sorry about that. I’ve been chastised about this at a couple of parties,

Student: I don’t remember the name. Blade Runner 2049.

Ken: 2049. Something like that.

Student: Well, unfortunately, if you haven’t seen it, I’m about to spoil it, like a huge spoiler. There’s this part of the movie, and this is the crux of the movie where the [laughter] … stay with me.

Ken: I’m there with you. I’m just wondering what’s going to be left of you.

Student: That’s the point. That’s actually the punchline. So the main character arrives, having this memory of being this important person in this resistance against the bad guys. And he’s like the important good guy. And it turns out that the entire thing was a fabricated memory by somebody else that many other replicants have in order to run this program to end up joining the resistance. But that’s the program having run. There’s nothing special about him whatsoever, even though everything in his experience up to that point led him to that moment. Which means that it was very special, it’s kind of deep. I feel like that, I felt that just now, this sense of like, “Oh, you know, there’s this, there’s this path of liberation and there’s all … we’re all in this room. We’re all reading this old book. Right? We don’t know who wrote it, but clearly it’s important to us. We’re here.” And there’s something important in our lives of why we are doing it. Each having our own individual experience. Like, I am doing this. I’m the one reading the sutra. I’m having this liberative experience. And then I get to this point and I’m like, “What the fuck? I’m not there to have that moment that I’ve been after.” That sense. Sorry for cussing and infinite void. It’s like I was never the thing that I thought I was, doing the thing that I thought I was doing. That’s what I’m trying to communicate.

Ken: And it’s worse than that.

Student: Yeah. Okay, great. There’s more.

Ken: Who’s talking right now?

Student: Ryan Gosling, I think, is the character in Blade Runner 2049. Right?

Ken: Who’s talking? Right now.

Student: No idea. No, I’ve been working on that question. No idea.

Ken: What does it mean, you’ve been working on the question?

Student: Oh, here we go.

Ken: It’s okay. We’ll leave you there. You got the point. Okay. So, whether you use the term transmission, whether you use truth, whether you use duty, whether you use instruction, teaching, experience, one or other of these meanings of this term will probably speak to some of you more strongly than others. There is no satisfactory way to translate this into English, which is why Paul Harrison at Stanford and Red Pine in his treatment, and many other translators have chosen to use the word dharma because they don’t want to pin it down. It’s a perfectly reasonable choice.

In translating and in talking about this, I’m not making that decision. I’m making a different decision. I want it to be in actual English because something happens. If I said this about the dharma, unless you are fairly sophisticated in your relationship with the word dharma, it wouldn’t mean anything. But, when I use a word like experience or the truth or transmission or something like that, that means something. And you are caught by this apparent contradiction and your mind stops. So this is a choice. This is the kind of choice one makes as translators. But I just want to alert you to this so that when you read different translations of this, you can appreciate the choices that the translator made. And all of the translators are doing their absolute best to translate in such a way that it conveys their understanding of the sutra to the very best of their ability. It would be ridiculous to suppose that they were doing anything less, but some approaches work better than others, and some approaches work better for some people than others. So the way that I do this certainly doesn’t work for everybody. I know that very clearly.

Domains of awakening

Ken: Now I want to go on to the second section here. And, you know, Buddha just keeps pushing Subhuti on the stuff.

“Subhuti, if some bodhisattva says, ‘I will create many beautifully designed domains of awakening,’ what he said would not be true. Why is this? Because, Subhuti, what are called ‘beautifully designed domains of awakening’ that the Thus Come has said that these have no beautiful design.”

Now let’s talk about domains of awakening. It’s my own translation of a term—the Tibetan term is zhing khams (pron. zhing kam). I’m not sure what the Sanskrit is, but it’s the idea that as someone wakes up, they create these domains where when you enter into them—or realms where you enter them—you are closer to waking up, or you actually wake up yourself. And there’s a kind of power in that.

And this has been formalized into something concrete. Well, everything that is elaborated this way comes from some kind of experience. And when you’re around a person who has some degree of awakening, there is a field of energy, or whatever you want to call it, which makes it possible for you to be present in your own experience more completely. And that’s what a domain of awakening is. It’s not a physical thing that is created, or even a mythical thing that is created. It is what happens when two people interact and one is holding the space and people enter into the space and benefit from it. Now, when I used to teach the Heart Sutra … how many of you are familiar with the Heart Sutra? Okay so, there are a lot of people. Good. So you know that Buddha is there and Shariputra and Avalokiteshvara. And then it says, “Through the power of the Buddha” Shariputra asks this question to Avalokiteshvara. When I teach the Heart Sutra, what I would often do is say, “Okay, I want two volunteers.” One person plays Shariputra, one person plays Avalokiteshvara, and I bring them up to the front. And I would say, “Okay, you’re Shariputra, you’re Avalokiteshvara. You’re the meditation teacher, you’re the student. So you ask him a question about your meditation, make it a real question about your own meditation, and you answer it to the best of your ability.”

And so these two people would start to interact that way. And almost always within two or three exchanges, it just became a complete mess. Nobody was prepared to do this. And there’s a massive confusion. They haven’t met each other. There’s all kinds of reasons. And then I say, “Okay, I need a third volunteer. No pressure here. You play Buddha.” And so I get someone and I position them so that you have the two people, and then, forming a triangle effectively, is Buddha. I said, “You don’t have to do anything. You just have to sit there and rest in attention to the best of your ability. That’s all. You don’t have to do anything else.” Okay, fine.

And then I have Avalokiteshvara and Shariputra do the same thing. And every time the meditation instruction goes back and forth incredibly clearly in just a few things. The presence of one person and attention creates a domain of awakening. And it always happens that way.

This is one of the things I hope very much that you take from this class we’ve done together. That being in the presence, the actual presence, physical, like we’re all here in the same room with a teacher is an extremely important part. There’s a certain amount that can happen over Zoom and online, things like that, and on the phone. But it is categorically different when you’re physically present. And it’s really … if you’re really serious about your spiritual practice, you find a person whom you can see periodically, person-to-person, and really talk about your practice. It’s different and it’s very, very important.

Now the pieces start to fall together here. There isn’t any domain being created by anybody. It’s not like, “I’m going to create this domain of experience.” When I asked somebody to be the Buddha, I didn’t say, “I want you to create.” I should do that next time. If I said, “I want you to create a domain of awakening,” it would be just a complete mess for sure. I just said, “Rest in attention,” and then something different happens. And that is why it’s called a domain of awakening, because nothing intentional or conceptual is going on. Do you follow now how this works? Good. Okay, So that’s section ten. And we actually killed two birds with one stone, which is the most un-Buddhist phrase of all. But I did come across in another culture which had a similar expression that didn’t involve killing, but I cannot remember what it is. Now somebody mentioned. Yes.

Student: Just a quick question on the domain of awakening. Is that analogous to the term I’ve heard “buddha field?”

Ken: Yes, yes, yes. That’s the term that is usually translated. That’s exactly right.

Student: So buddha field. So same idea.

Ken: Yeah. It’s just a different translation of the same term. Yeah. Exactly. Thank you. I’ve been trying to remember that term for the last six weeks. So this is great. Thank you. I should put that in my notes because that’s exactly right.
So, I think somebody mentioned 17, right? Is that 17? Yeah. Okay. Oh, no. The next one was 18. The the five eyes. But 17. What is a bodhisattva? Is that the one you’re referencing?

Student: Well, 17 mentions the transformation of a world, which I think was Carson’s question.

Ken: Yes. Right. Actually, 17 covers a lot of ground here. [Pause] Yeah. Where is the transformation of the world here? Pardon?

Student: Right toward the end of 17.

Ken: Oh, yes. There we are. “I shall establish many domains of awakening.” Yeah. This is exactly the same as what we went over. And so this is part of the way that the Diamond Sutra works, is that there’s four or five themes that are present in the first three or four chapters, and then they revisit those themes again and again, basically driving the point home.

Interrupting patterns

Ken: Okay, the faculties:

Subhuti, what do you think? Does the thus come have physical sight?

Now when you come across something like the five eyes, it is the word for eye [eye is used in the A. F. Price translation], but it’s referring to the to the faculty of sight. So I’ve chosen to translate this as sight rather than eye, because people get hung up on literalism here.

So, “Does the Thus Come have physical sight?” And then, “Yes, the Thus Come has physical sight.” So physical sight is ordinary seeing. Then … I’ve got these in my notes, but I’m not sure I can remember them all. I didn’t bring my computer with me today. Okay. This is off the top of my head. I remember that there’s a progression here, being able to see more and more completely what is happening in the scheme of things. So that first there’s just the straight physical sight, and then the divine sight is to begin to see what motivates people. Then the wisdom sight is being able to see the patterns that are in play. And then the spiritual sight—I can’t remember what the term for that is.

Student: Omniscience.

Ken: Yes, that’s correct. That is to see how those patterns play out. And so here you’re beginning to see the possibilities of being able to interrupt the patterns. And then when you’re awake, you can see how the patterns form and play out, and also how to enter into them, engage them so that they collapse because you can see into them.

And this is exactly what happens in the course of training and spiritual practice. You become so familiar with the operation of what is going on in you that you, “Oh, I’m doing that again.” Oh, and it proceeds like this: “Oh, I’m doing that again. You know, I do this all the time.” And then like, “Oh my God, this completely governs my life,” which is really, just really depressing. But it’s actually a very important step when you see a pattern and how it governs so much of your life, you’re actually beginning to disengage from the pattern, because now you can see the pattern as an object.It’s not running you completely. And then as you rest deeper in that experience, you can say, “Oh,” and the possibility of not engaging, it opens. That’s the awakening.

Now, interestingly enough, the practice that I gave you right at the beginning, the the five-step practice from Thich Nhat Hahn, it will take you through that process if you explore it deeply enough. With everything that comes up in your life, when you encounter a difficult situation, if you sit with it, then the first thing you start to notice is, “Okay, there’s this thing that I do,” and then you start to notice all the ways, all the reactions that are associated with it. And then the next step is, as you continue with that, you discover that you can be at ease in it. That is, you can be in it. It’s still running. But as this gentleman described, it isn’t capturing you the same way. So now you’re at the the third level, which corresponds roughly to the wisdom eye or a faculty of sight. And then you begin to relax into it. You find you can relax into it. Now it’s releasing its hold on you. And then there comes to a point where an understanding comes up. “Oh, this is just something that goes on in my mind. I don’t have to do anything with it.” That’s freedom. Okay, there’s a couple of questions have come up here. First you and then you. Over here, please.

Student: Yes. So, I remember there’s a there’s a section in a different sutra where Buddha talks about his first experience of awakening under the tree. And it’s like he has three visions. So, in the first moment of vision, he saw everything in the universe and the karmic evolution and the past of all beings. And then in the second vision, he saw his infinite past lives and all of the things that had transpired in his karmic evolution. And in the third vision, he saw the cause and the ending of all afflictions. So, does this sort of correspond to the progression of the eyes that you mentioned?

Ken: Yes, very much so, in my opinion. First there’s seeing what is happening, then seeing all of the mechanisms that go on in it, or you can say all of the interdependent origination that goes on with it. And then seeing the openings that are possible in it, that’s basically what you’re talking about in those three three steps. And here it’s portrayed in five. In the meditation I gave you, there are five steps. But this this is a progression. And there are physical and mental shifts that occur in the course of this. In Wake Up to Your Life, chapter five I think, section ten, I go through that process in actually quite some detail because a lot of people get very confused by it.

In this progression, at a certain point, you will start having intense physical sensations that seem to come out of nowhere, and they can be quite unpleasant. And that’s stuff that’s been locked up in certain physical patterns. I’ts beginning to release, and that’s why you’re feeling them. And then they fade away and think, “Oh, that’s nice.” But then you can start having these really weird, powerful emotional states that don’t seem to be connected with anything that’s going on in your life, but they’re quite strong.

And so you struggle with that for a while, and then they go away, and then the physical sensations come back. Or maybe they’re different physical sensations. And you find yourself going through a period of physical sensations, emotional sensations, and gradually they come together. That’s when it really gets fun, because now you’ve got these intense physical sensations and intense emotional sensations, and you think, as one person said, “It’s approximately what happens to a caterpillar in the process of becoming a butterfly,” which I think is a wonderful image. I have no idea what a caterpillar feels as it dissolves, but that’s what’s happening. And all through this, you’re developing the ability to stay in both the physical and the emotional. And when you have the ability to stay in both the physical and emotional together, then the pattern begins to let go. And this is not something you decide. You can’t say, “I’m going to let go of the pattern now.” It doesn’t work that way. All you can do is be in the experience without being taken over or confused or suppressing it or whatever. And then you discover these openings and they start to open up for you. Okay? Yes.

Student: Now, I have two questions coming from what you just said. I had this distinct feeling of first that you were describing a cleansing. And then that evolved into … it felt like a disorder becoming ordered. Both the concepts of entropy and …

Ken: Yeah, both of these descriptions are valid. There’s a lot of talk, particularly in the Tibetan tradition, about purification. And people find it very confusing sometimes because they have this idea that, “I have to become completely pure.” But there are two meanings to pure. One is pure versus impure. The other is the purity that embraces both the pure and the impure, and they’re quite different. And when you’re talking about the purity that embraces both the pure and the impure, you’re talking about emptiness. In fact, in many contexts, pure and empty are virtually synonymous. I talk about this quite explicitly in The Magic of Vajrayana, for instance. When people get stuck on the word pure, it’s because they’re thinking of pure versus impure, rather than the purity that embraces both the pure and the impure. And that’s not a conceptual embrace. It’s an actual embrace. It’s not just an idea in your head. You can meet—what did Kipling say? “If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat these two impostors just the same.” If you can meet the bad and the good in your life and say, “Okay.” And there are many stories about hermits who encountered difficult situations and good situations. And they go, “Well, not good, not bad, not good, not bad.” So there’s an underlying equanimity which allows them to to embrace both the pure and the impure.

Student: Okay. Thank you. My original question. As you were going through the progression of the steps, the eye steps, was that the mirror of the mind?

Ken: No, that’s a different metaphor, and it’s a very wonderful metaphor, but it’s actually referring to something else. It’s referring to a somewhat different approach. You probably go through those steps in in that approach, because those steps that I described—that sequence—is always, always present in some in some way in the course of practice. But the mirror of the mind, that’s closer to regarding everything as a dream in the way that I was talking about at the beginning of this class.

Student: But there is an observer?

Ken: Who’s looking at whom?

Student: Right.

Ken: Yeah. Well, answer my question.

Student: That question.

Ken: Just a second. Answer and use the microphone, please. Who is looking at whom? There. [Ken points at the student] Right there. Thank you.

Student questions

Ken: Okay. How are we doing for time? Oh, the time just goes too quickly here. Okay. We only have one other section of the sutra. Rana? All these hands went up. I suppose that’s good.

Rana: You know, in Persian poetry they talk about the the sight of heart over and over. And I think they’re talking about insight. And for insight, there is no … it just happens.

Ken: Yes. That’s a lovely expression, because one doesn’t often think of the heart as seeing. But as soon as you say it, it opens up a possibility that is quite outside the conceptual mind. That is very helpful. Thank you.

Rana: Thank you. I, may cheat, but I listen a lot to chanting. And when I listen to chanting, Korean chant, I don’t know a word in Korean, but somehow it it affects my heart in a way that the concept is far away and I’m just listening. And this repetition, specifically this repetition with the chanting and the music, like music of Bach, it’s so in tune with human being. And that’s why in a way I cheat because I didn’t read, but I listen and then I use a different way to …

Ken: I’m sorry. We’re just going to have to give you a failing grade. [Laughter] No, there are many, many ways of stopping the conceptual mind. Chanting. This is one of the reasons chanting is such a prevalent practice, particularly within monastic settings, or group settings, because there’s an involvement with that where you’re surrounded. It’s as if the sense of sound is flooding, and in that flooding the mind grows quiet, and there’s a possibility of opening. This isn’t cheating at all.

One of the things I also hope you take from this is what’s important in practice is to find a way that speaks to you. And by “speaks to you,” I mean something that stops the conceptual mind. And it can be through prayer, it can be through chanting, it can be through koan practice. Koan practice actually only works for a certain number of people. It can be through the exercise of faith, which is often exercised through prayer and so forth. It can be through meditation. There are many, many ways, and it doesn’t matter which one you use. You use the ones which really speak to you, which allow you to let go of the habitual way that you approach … that you bring to life. So that’s suspended, even if it’s only temporarily. But every moment that it’s suspended helps to open the possibility. And that’s the purpose of practice, is to keep opening this possibility in you until it becomes something that becomes really part of the way you experience life. That’s why I gave you that exercise a couple of classes ago, of learning to listen to the silence when you are speaking, when somebody else is speaking, but you are always able to hear the silence no matter what else is going on. That’s a practice, but it’s in the same vein as what you’re talking about. So not a problem here. Okay. Who else? Okay. Up here.

Holding and letting go

Student: I have a question about the definition of dharma as holding. What about letting go? And when holding on becomes problematic, how does that relate with that?

Ken: We’re really talking about two different areas here. I was talking about in the domain of translation, one could use this term holding. For instance, in Tibetan the word for dharma is chos. You have chos and you have chos can (pron. chö chen). chos is dharma, often translated as phenomenon. And chos can is the dharma, or dharma holder, and it refers to subject/object here, or object/subject actually. And then you have chos nyid, (pron. chö nyi) which is the essence. What is a dharma? Well, what is a dharma? It is nothing. There isn’t any thing there. That would be linking to the letting go aspect, but be very careful about mixing the different ways words are used. If you try to get everything to line up, you’re going to end up with a mass of contradictions. One could develop, I’m pretty sure, a whole way of talking about dharma practice in terms of using my suggestion of dharma as holding, which would allow the possibility of letting go. Nobody’s explored it because we’re not doing it. But I’m quite sure it could be done. But don’t just collapse onto the meaning here and the meaning there and say this disagrees. If you do that, you’re going to find disagreements and contradictions absolutely everywhere, and you’ll end up in a mass of confusion.

Student: Well, I did find the the subject/object meaning of holding—part of the reason you suggested we think of it this way—as being very appropriate, because there’s the nobility and strength of sticking with that, which is the truth, the duty. That’s one of the meanings of this word. And within that subset of the meaning where this does apply, I still am a bit confused about how to hold as opposed to how to let go of that holding.

Ken: What are you trying to do by holding?

Student: What’s right. What’s true.

Ken: Ah. So what’s the difference between a vice and a virtue?

Student: A vice is harmful.

Ken: And a virtue?

Student: Beneficial. Beneficial.

Ken: Always?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Not really. The difference in my mind between a vice and a virtue is if you push a vice, it remains a vice. If you push any virtue, it becomes a vice.

Student: Okay.

Ken: Thus, there comes a point where you have to let go of the practice of a virtue, because it’s going out of balance. I think that answers your question.

Student: Right. It does. So you’re holding on to balance, which won’t stay if you’re holding on.

Ken: Exactly. Can you hold on to balance?

Student: Mmm.

Ken: Well I’ll make it a little more difficult for you. How do you hold on to balance?

Student: I don’t think you can.

Ken: By not holding. That’s how you hold onto balance. When was the last time you rode a bicycle?

Student: A few months ago.

Ken: Have you ever tried to keep the bicycle absolutely still and not move at all?

Student: It’s always oscillating.

Ken: It’s always going back and forth. If you try to hold on to the balance, let it stay there. You’ll fall over very quickly. But if you don’t hold on to balance and let the bicycle do its thing, then you can ride with no hands.

Student: Mmm.

Ken: It’s very helpful, that example. Yeah. Okay, good.

Student: Thank you.

Ken: You’re welcome. One more question.

Unfiltered responses to experience

Student: So I guess related to that is I heard Zen and dzogchen both kind of pointing to spontaneous action and effortless effort and stepping into flow. It seems like that’s a progression from like, after purification, you’re just kind of dynamically responding to experience without filtering it.

Ken: Well, I think this is what the Diamond Sutra is pointing to. And it’s a very important point here. You are not doing anything. Something else comes into operation and it’s not you. This is really important because as I’ve said before, and a lot of people took note of it: the illusion of control is an indication of a lack of freedom. So any time you think, “Okay, I’m going to act spontaneously,” well, you’re dead before you even start. And I don’t know how it is for you, but I find it’s really important to get rid of these ways of thinking. At least I have found it very, very important to get rid of these ways of thinking, because they lead me in the wrong direction. And T.S. Eliot said it quite well in Four Quartets: “For us there is only the trying. The rest is not our business.”

I was talking with a friend about archery. He practiced kyudo many years ago and I’ve taken up archery recently. Not Japanese archery, traditional archery. And you draw the bow and you get the posture right as best you can, and you release the arrow. The rest is not your business. It’s hard because you want that arrow to go certain places.

Student: I’ve spent a lot of years doing the awareness of watching patterns come up. So I have this like, vise like grip catching things. And now I’m trying to let go into … efforting.

Ken: Why did you make so much effort to catch patterns as they were coming up?

Student: Because I didn’t realize I could have another way of being. I always thought I needed to have this filter to catch patterns.

Ken: Did you find that other way of being?

Student: By watching Zen teachers. Yeah.

Ken: And what did you get from them?

Student: Presence. Just doing what was needed in the moment without …

Ken: Without thinking. There’s a book that was written a long time ago called the The Empty Mirror. It was written by Dutch guy who went to a Zen monastery. And he describes an incident where he and another person were responsible for serving tea during the sesshin. And his job was to get the teapot, and the other guy’s job was to get all the cups. And the person would distribute the cups and he would fill them up with tea. So he went and got the teapot, and he came back with a teapot full of hot tea and saw that there were no cups. And he immediately put the teapot down, went and got the cups, put the cups out and distributed the tea. And he couldn’t understand why the monks afterwards said, “Good job.” He went, “What are you talking about?” Because he’d done exactly what you’re describing. He saw that the cups were missing and he just got them. He didn’t even think about it. And they recognized that because he didn’t hesitate. He just did it. They recognized that, and that’s why they said, “Good job.” And so that was awakened activity, if you wish, in that moment because it was just a response. “Oh, no cups. Cups.” Done. No interruption whatsoever. It’s such an ordinary thing in one way, but in another way it’s completely extraordinary because there’s no thinking. You follow,

Student: I follow.

Ken: Good. All right. I think we have time for one more question. Okay. Over here.

Student: It’s sort of a similar question I was going to ask before he asked that one. When the mind stops, what is there to be done?

Ken: Whatever the world presents to you in that moment.

Student: Yeah.

Ken: And this is important. Two people can be in the same situation. And when the mind stops, one person does one thing, another person does another, and they’re both right. In fact, we have three Nasrudin stories to complete.

So Nasrudin was the magistrate once again, and he listened to the plaintiff present his side of the case, and the plaintiff gave this incredibly eloquent argument. and Nasrudin was completely taken in by it. At the end of it, he said, “You’re right. Judgment for the plaintiff.”

And the bailiff came up and said, “Your Honor, you need to listen to the defendant, too.”

“Oh, okay. The defendant stood up and made an equally articulate and beautiful presentation. And Nasrudin listened to it. “Oh. You’re right.”

And the bailiff said, “Your Honor, they can’t both be right.”

Nasrudin said, “You’re right.”

Ken: Okay, so thank you for that. There’s one more question over here. Yes.

In balance

Student: Thank you. So you talked about the … I don’t remember the terminology, but those two spaces, and one is right before something to the effect of ignorance being resurrected or …

Ken: The re-emergence of ignorance.

Student: Yes. I had a question about, chapter 23, because I thought that that’s what the sutra is talking about in the Price and Wong version. There’s an italicized “This”. “Furthermore, Subhuti, This is altogether everywhere, without differentiation or degree.” But the Red Pine version is quite different, and the word dharma comes in again, and I wasn’t sure of the meaning of that. And I was just wondering …

Ken: Could you read the sentence, please?

Student: Sure. It’s chapter 23. “Furthermore, Subhuti, This is altogether everywhere, without differentiation or degree. Wherefore it is called ‘consummation of incomparable enlightenment.'”

Ken: Okay, so just to confuse things completely, here is another translation. I’m not 100% sure on this one. I’m trying this one out. “Furthermore, Subhuti this experience is balanced. There is no imbalance at all. Therefore it is called supreme, full and complete awakening.”

Now the word in Tibetan is even, same. One could use the term uniform. But I find that,as you’ve noticed in our conversations over the last few weeks, this aspect of practice that I refer to as balance, I find very, very important. And so things are even and flow smoothly when things are in balance. And things are never exactly in balance, but when they’re moving around the balance points, things just flow. When things get out of balance, then things get rather nasty. So, “Subhuti, this experience is balanced.” And maybe I should say in balance, possibly. “There is no imbalance at all.” That is, one can just be in the experience. Does that fit?

Student: Yes it does. And because my first interpretation—and this is in the Wong and Price version—was that, the “This” which you just described was more like living in the experience of awake awareness.

Ken: You see, the preceding paragraph in section 22, because this is following right on that.

“Subhuti, what do you think? Is there any such experience as the Thus Come’s supreme utter and complete awakening, in full and complete buddhahood?”

Venerable Subhuti replied, “Most honored, no such experience exists as the Thus Come’s supreme utter and complete awakening in full and complete buddhahood.”

And what’s being said here is that full and complete awakening isn’t an experience. You follow? Subhuti: “That is right. Nothing is held, not even the slightest experience. Therefore, it is called supreme, full and complete awakening. Further Subhuti, this experience is balanced.” Now you can see the logic, right? “There is no imbalance at all. Therefore, it is called supreme and complete awakening.” Does that help?

Student: Yes it does. Thank you.

The spirit of the Diamond Sutra

Ken: Okay, now I want to move on at this point because I’ve got a lot to do, including … you have a lot to do. You don’t know that yet, but you do. I want to go to section 32. This is the last.

Suppose a bodhisattva mahasattva filled innumerable uncountable worlds with the seven precious jewels and gave them away. And suppose that a son or daughter of good family took up only a four line verse from this perfection of wisdom, cherished it, read it, or took it to heart, or taught it extensively to others. On that basis, he or she would generate an innumerable and uncountable greater amount of goodness.

And as I think I pointed out in the past, in previous talks, that this “uncountable, innumerable amount of goodness” is a way of saying we’re dealing with a whole different category here. It’s not something that’s comparable at all.

How does one teach this correctly in the way that one does not teach this correctly? Therefore it is called teaching it correctly.

A shooting star, hazy vision or a butter lamp,
An enchantment. A dewdrop or a bubble,
A dream, a flash of lightning or a cloud,
See the conditions like this.

When the Most Honored had spoken, the Elder Subhuti, the monks, the bodhisattvas, the four assemblies of monks, nuns, laymen and laywomen, and the whole world with its gods, humans, titans and smell eaters rejoiced and sincerely praised the Most Honored’s teaching.

This completes the noble perfection of wisdom known as the Vajra-Cutter.

Now, this four-line verse at the end, I’m quite sure, came from somewhere else. I don’t know where. It articulates or contains many of the metaphors that are used elsewhere, especially in the Tibetan tradition. The shooting star, that’s metaphor for the brevity of life. Hazy vision is the distortion of experience due to conditioning, whether it’s ignorance, emotional or conceptual confusion. A butter lamp is again an image of impermanence. It’s something that is flickering in the wind that can go out at any time. It’s also an image for the light of wisdom. An enchantment is again a metaphor for how we experience things like a dream, an enchantment. It’s like we are in a spell. We’re in the spell that is cast by ignorance, which causes us to experience everything in terms of subject and object. A dew drop. Again, this is a metaphor for the evanescence and the precariousness of life. Or a bubble. Well, bubbles float around, but they can go pop at any time. A dream again. That’s like the enchantment. A flash of lightning. Both a metaphor for wisdom and also for the evanescent nature of life. Or a cloud, something that appears out of nothing and dissolves back into nothing.

And it can be a thunder cloud or a wispy white cloud or whatever. But it’s the same. It appears out of nothing and dissolves back into nothing, which is how experience arises. It arises out of nothing and dissolves back into nothing and always partakes of nothing at the same time.

So, the last line here is, “See the conditioned like this.” And everything in the Diamond Sutra is trying to open you up to seeing the world this way, and you can carry the spirit of the Diamond Sutra with you by keeping these nine metaphors in mind. So it’s well worth memorizing this verse. This is my own translation. You can memorize the translations in other versions. They’re fine. There’s nothing wrong with them at all. I just like to tinker with these things.

A sufi story

Ken: Let me think. Where did that go? That’s what I want. Ah, yes. Our second Nasrudin story:

So one day Jamal knocked on Nasrudin’s door and Nasrudin said, “Jamal, how nice to see you. What are you doing here?”

“Well, I thought I’d come to visit you.

“Well, that’s a very interesting coincidence. I was just about to go out and visit some friends. Why don’t you come with me?”

And Jamal said, “Well, that would be wonderful, but I’m not dressed for the occasion. I just have very ordinary clothes on.”

“Well, you can borrow one of my robes, said Nasrudin.

“Oh. Well, okay.” So, Nasrudin lent him a robe, and they went and they knocked on Nasrudin’s first friend’s door.

“Ibrahim, this is my friend Jamal, and the robe he’s wearing, it’s mine.” And Jamal was a little taken aback by this, but they had a nice visit with Ibrahim. But when they left Jamal said to Nasrudin,

“That was a little bit uncomfortable when you said that the robe was yours. Maybe we don’t do that.”

“No,” Nasrudin said, “That’s fine.” So, they went to the next friend.

“Oh, Hussein.” And then, “Hussein, I want you to meet my friend Jamal. And Jamal, this is Hussein. And the robe, the robe is his.”

Well, they still had a nice visit. But afterwards, as they’re walking along, Jamal says, “I wasn’t so comfortable saying that robe … It didn’t sound quite right. Could we just not talk about the robe?”

Nasrudin said, “That’s perfectly all right.” And they get to the next one, I can’t remember what his name was, but he said, “Oh, this is my friend Jamal and the robe, oh, we’re not going to talk about the robe.”

[Laughter] That’s strangely appropriate for this evening. Okay. Now we’ve got to do something which we have ridiculously little time for. This is our last class together. I want to say that I’ve enjoyed these classes immensely. I’ve also personally got an awful lot out of them. Far more than I ever imagined or expected from both studying and working on the Diamond Sutra, but also in discussing it with you. And I really deeply appreciate your willingness to engage what wasn’t always a comfortable interaction. But as I said right at the beginning, one of the things that I wanted you to take from this is what’s involved in dharma and the value of actually interacting, because every time—and we had several instances of this tonight, we’ve had many instances over the course of these six weeks—is that when you step out of your world and present something to me, I have to step out of mine. I’ve got to deal with you and your question and a space opens up, and in that space, something can happen and it can be very, very important. And this is why interaction with a teacher is very important.

And very closely related to this, I set up Unfettered Mind, the organization that is the legal vehicle for me to do what I do, in L.A. in 1990. And I wasn’t 100% clear what I was doing. But I remember very clearly, I’d rented an office, just in an executive suite, these one room businesses. And I came down and got in my car one evening—I’d finished seeing people for the day—and asked myself, “What the hell am I doing?” And the question that arose in my mind was, “What happened to all of the other people like me?” Because at this point, I was having a very difficult time in my relationship with the tradition. I’d been in a three year retreat, I’d got very ill, and I couldn’t practice 90% of the practices that I had learned. They just made me sick immediately. And it was a very difficult period. And I asked myself the question, “Well, what happened to people like me in the past? I’m certainly not the first one.” And I realized, “Oh, we have no idea what happened to them because none of their histories were ever recorded.” What gets passed down from one generation to the next is those things that are recorded, and you need institutions to record and preserve things as they go. So most of the people that operated at the fringes, all that stuff just disappeared. We have no idea. And that’s when I decided that whatever I did with Unfettered Mind, it would be aimed at or for principally people whose paths lie outside established institutions.

Now I have the feeling that maybe I’m quite incorrect here, that many of you fit that picture. Otherwise, you probably wouldn’t be here. Am I right about that? Okay. It’s nice to be right about one thing sometimes. But I do want to give you this encouragement, in one sense; I suppose a caution in another. In my own training, I was extremely fortunate. Really, very, very deeply fortunate. I had the benefit of receiving a full Western education in mathematics. I never got around to doing my PhD, but I did get an MA. And then I turned around and got a full education in the Tibetan tradition before it was seriously fractured by its impact with modernism. My teacher had lived and practiced in Tibet, practiced in the mountains in Tibet. And before he came out of Tibet, he had heard rumors about the First World War, but had never heard a thing about the Second World War, if you can imagine. And he never used a telephone. He didn’t know what to do with it. But he had practiced very, very deeply. And through his kindness and the kindness of many other teachers that I’ve studied with, I received a pretty complete training in a pre-modern, a traditional society, if you wish, which is very different from that. And I’m deeply grateful to have had these two.

What has become clear to me is that if you’re operating outside the established institutions, you actually need to have a deeper relationship with a tradition than those who operate within the framework of an institution. Because when you operate within a framework of the institution, you have all of that support around you. If you’re operating outside it, your relationship and understanding of the tradition actually needs to be deeper because you don’t have all of that support. So, I feel that my own training has stood me in very, very good stead. And I would like to encourage you to develop that kind of relationship in whatever way is possible for you to do. Because the relationship with the teacher or teachers, that experience of being with them and seeing, hearing how they act and work and all of this you’ll find it does things in your practice, often without you being aware of it, that are actually extremely important.

Don’t miss what’s right in front of you

Ken: I’ve covered a lot of the other stuff. Now, our final Nasrudin story.

Nasrudin traveled between Persia and Turkey, and he would come across with two donkeys laden with all kinds of things. And when he hit the customs people, he would hand them a bill of loading, and they would examine everything. And everything was exactly according to the bill of lading. And so was fine. And then Nasrudin would come back, and then a while later, he would come along with two donkeys, absolutely filled with all kinds of things, the bill of loading. And they knew Nasrudin and they suspected something, but they could not find anything that was amiss here. And this went on for several years. Many years later, in Isfahan, one of the customs agents who had long since retired, ran into Nasrudin at a public bath. He said, “Nasrudin, do you remember me? I was one of those customs agents when you were going back and forth between Persia and Turkey.”

Nasrudin said, “Oh yeah, I do.”

“Look, we all knew you were smuggling something. We just couldn’t figure out what it was. Now it’s long in the past. Nothing’s going to happen. What were you smuggling?”

“Oh,” Nasrudin said, “donkeys.”

So don’t miss what’s right in front of you. Okay?

Student feedback

Ken: Now in closing, there’s two things and we’re already out of time. We won’t have time to do this. So, we can start with you. And I would like to hear from as many of you, one thing that you’ve got out of this course over the last six weeks. Just one sentence, please don’t go into long things, just one thing that you have got out of it that you’re going to take take from this and work with. So we’ll start with you.

Student: I had an experience where I saw something, and I realized that it was just … the concept rushed in right after. There was a quick flash of me seeing that it was a concept and not the thing that I was seeing.

Ken: Good.

Student: Peace and spaciousness.

Student: Looking at an entire tree, not merely one leaf.

Student: I don’t really know, but it’ll unfold.

Ken: Okay, yes, you can say, “Not a damn thing if you want.”

Student: How to work outside of my intellectual mind.

Student: Pausing and noticing the sort of … like moments between perception and the conceptual output, I guess.

Student: Let it rip. Let it die. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Student: A different kind of relationship to my speaking voice and the practice of listening while I’m speaking.

Ken: Very good. Okay. I’m really glad to hear that.

Student: All of our interaction has been wonderful. But one thing I’m taking away is I’ve been telling Nasrudin stories all over the place.

Student: The experience of the mind stops.

Student: Something calls to you, and you listen. And you keep listening and you follow.

Student: Keep looking.

Student: The effect reading the sutra out loud has on attention.

Student: I’d say the flow is always present.

Student: More awareness of emptiness.

Student: The illusion of control. And noticing myself when my ego is very strong.

Student: The practice of paying attention to my experience when I’m engaged in activity.

Student: An answer to all of my questions and realizing that what I’m running from is that ruined life. But I’m already in the process of that ruined life, and that the chaos is precisely what I need and what I fear.

Student: The sutra is not about understanding, it’s about knowing. And some things can’t be understood. They can only be known.

Student: To go back to the fundamentals and be very honest with yourself.

Student: I’m not doing anything.

Student: “That right there.” [Laughter]

Student: Balance and silence.

Student: Excellent modeling of fruitful teacher-student interactions.

Student: The practice of reading sutra standing up and the practice of stopping amidst reading.

Student: Knowing without understanding.

Student: Listening into the silence.

Student: Be present and be balanced.

Student: The adornment of the buddha fields. Paying attention is like a field of awakening.

Student: The depth to which I can go if I choose to.

Student: Balance is not something that can be controlled or held on to.

Student: It’s okay to let your mind stop and not try to understand the words, not try to conceptualize.

Student: Confidence or faith. A friend. Surprise and a dying.

Student: A generosity without end.

Student: This is Diamond Sutra in action. Actually, everybody included. And the back and forth. The question. Answer. So wonderful. Thank you.

Student: The importance of having a teacher and the experience in life of the mind stopping, and having equanimity and love just happening at various times.

Student: So two things. Take a breath before I speak. And then also I’m screwed.

Ken: Okay. Thank you very much. Now, one other question. It’s a little more difficult, perhaps. Maybe easier. What’s one thing you think could be improved about the course? And this can cover any aspect of the course whatsoever. What’s one thing you feel could be improved about the course? And this is any aspect of the course from where it’s hosted to how we did things here, etc. So we’ll just start with you, and just again, one one quick sentence. That’s all.

Student: Right now I’m empty. Nothing’s coming up.

Student: Add a year.

Student: My second question. Can you Ken McLeod share how the Diamond Sutra can prepare us for old age, illness and death?

Ken: Oh, I didn’t cover that, did I?

Student: No! [emphatically].

Student: I think someone said that you came out of retirement to do this class and my assumption was you weren’t planning to do another one. So an improvement would be to do another class like this one.

Student: Ken, sometimes you talk to a person and say, “You got it.” But sometimes for me, I didn’t get it. I wish you could just highlight even maybe between you and the person who got it.

Student: I needed to sit in a chair, and I feel like being so far away from you made it harder for me to kind of gather up the courage to engage. The microphone had to be farther away, things like that.

Ken: You can sit here if you want.

Student: Oh, no.

Student: I just wish we had more time.

Student: The two sheets you handed out, the ecstatic practice and the five-step mindfulness practice, I think would be beneficial to step through them as a group. I’ve done these practices, and it was really a joy seeing them being offered. So I think maybe that would be …

Ken: Oh, that’s something you can do.

Student: I can, sure. Great. Thank you.

Student: Break up into small groups. Discussion, share, experience something on that order.

Student: More time.

Student: And maybe more focus on how the sutra practice can complement other practices, or how to incorporate it.

Student: I would echo more time also.

Student: More time. And also, there may have been an opportunity for us to read the sutra as a group. Maybe if we got together without you before class or something.

Student: I think maybe a smaller group would be fun. And also writing down the reading list of all the books that you recommended.

Student: Yeah. I think a lot of the things that you talked about in the earlier classes before we really got into the sutra, it seemed like there’s a lot of books and external resources that would be really interesting to to follow up on. So maybe like a external reading list.

Student: I’ll just give us all a break and let us go straight to that four-line gatha.

Ken: It wouldn’t mean as much, would it?

Student: I think this is one of your best qualities. But at the same time, I question sometimes … I think the way that you interact with each student is so special having that one-on-one interaction. But I think sometimes for me, I lose myself in it, which of course it’s someone else. But what I’m saying is that it’d be good as well to then identify the teaching for all of us, and not just the individual.

Student: I would like to have a short sit included.

Student: Yeah, I think more practice in the session interspersed maybe would be really cool. I love the conversations, but everyone knows that I’m not shy about talking a lot, so maybe it privileges people who are more outgoing in a sense. But you are pretty upfront about, “This is our responsibility.” And then better advertisement. The fact that this room is half empty, I know a lot of people are on retreat, but it’s sort of like how to read a sutra is what it says on the title. And this is so much more than that, which is hard to communicate. How to read a sutra is pretty cool, right? So better ads.

Ken: Are you in marketing?

Student: I’ve gotten so much out of you reading chapters from your translation. I would just love to see more of that. Your translations are very clear and elucidated things that had I’d missed for the entire six weeks.

Student: Yeah, I was going to second that. It would have been cool to have—maybe this is against your developmental policy—but it would have been cool to have a copy of your sutra as you developed it, because some translations, when you read yours aloud, I was like, “Oh, that’s so much better. It’s so much clearer.” The other thing I’d add is, tell everyone to read the Platform Sutra at least once, because it felt I only did it this week and it felt like, oh, it kind of explained a lot, or talked a whole lot about this sutra, which was cool.

Student: More sessions. And also, yes, I feel like I’m looking forward to reading your translations and to see how that would affect me.

Student: Consequences for not getting the questions answered. Besides your lack of enlightenment.

Student: Maybe accountability or just another person to help support that. And I just wish we could all eat a cookie together before each class. It’s just a wish.

Student: More on where to go from here.

Student: I’ve really enjoyed your translation. So, if you’re inclined to do another course. Or the second version of this course, after the book comes out, we could all have it in hand and and read it before. Thank you.

Student: The one thing on my mind right now that hasn’t already been mentioned is, the one-on-one interactions were really valuable for me to just hear. And I wish I could have seen the person’s face that you were talking to in a lot of those interactions.

Student: I kind of came up spontaneously just tonight, but I loved hearing a couple of different translations of the same passage side by side. [Unclear] … had two, and then you had your own. It just further drove home how how difficult that is. And then, maybe two hour sessions or ten hour sessions.

Student: I think it was chapter six … was the raft chapter that Carson had a question about. We never got to hear it. And now I got to wait till April to hear your radical translation.

Student: I was going to say maybe following the text a bit more closely instead of jumping around and here, and there and maybe see how it develops. Yeah, I would like that.

Ken:

“Because Subhuti, if these bodhisattva mahasattvas engaged the idea of experiences being real, just that would lead them to hold to a self, a sentient being, a living being.”

That should be where the raft is. Just a second. You said section six, right? No, it’s not in section six. Because I know it’s towards the end.

Thank you very much. It’s been a very fulfilling experience. And, I’m very, very glad to hear what you’re taking from the class, because in this way you are fulfilling my own intention, so I’m very grateful for that. With respect to the future, I thought this was going to take place in August and I thought, “I can translate the sutra before, and that’ll be fine.” But then I found out it was in July, so I translated the sutra while we were doing this course.

I will be doing this course again, except it won’t be the same at all, under the auspices of Tricycle magazine. And I’m going to take what you’ve just presented to me as ways it can be improved, and my own ideas about that, and incorporate that into another six week course. I think there’ll be 90 minute sessions again. That’ll be available through Tricycle. We don’t have a date set up for that because just as several of you have suggested already, I want to have the translation done and out so that people will have that translation to add to all the other ones. Because as several of you have also pointed out, it is good to have these different translations.

And the way that I’m approaching this translation—I’m not a scholar, I’m not translating for scholars—this is a practitioner’s translation for practitioners. And that’s one of the reasons why some of you may find it easier to follow, because there are a whole bunch of things that scholars need to do because of their position. And it is coming from a practice perspective, because that’s all that I’m interested in. So, I’m going to be doing that. To know when that’s going to happen, I’ll certainly let Michael and Katie and Eric know when that’s happening. So, maybe the Alembic will let you know. But if not, you can enroll in my very sporadic newsletters these days. Like there’s one once every now and then, literally like two or three times a year now, instead of monthly or weekly as they once were. Because I am actually retired.

So anyway, thank you all again very much. Take the things that you’ve talked about that you take from this class, take them in your hearts and keep them there. Let them grow and mature in you. Keep creating the conditions so that they can do that in your lives.

Where to go from here? I think the most important thing is two things. One is to develop the habit of practice so that there’s a constant building of skill and capability, because that is going to move you forward more than any other thing, probably. Interaction with a teacher, as many of you mentioned, is very, very important, and any steps you can take to secure that in your life will be very worthwhile steps to take. I don’t know what the future holds. I’ll probably not be doing anything until I’ve done the Tricycle course, and I have no idea what’s happening after that, I really don’t. But we’ll see when that time comes. So, thank you all and let’s do the final prayers. And I need to talk about the last prayer a little bit. Somewhere in here. Here we go.

We’ve gone ridiculously over but I haven’t heard any complaints, so that’s okay. Of the three forms of closing prayer, the last one is good fortune. And you can feel in the room right now that there’s a sense of well-being. At least I’m feeling that. That’s good fortune. And basically you wish this for everybody else. Now, in many prayers they give all kinds of symbols of good fortunes and just raining out of the sky all over the realm, all over the world. This particular good fortune prayer comes from a long life prayer which was written for my teacher. What did I do with my glasses? Here they are. And I liked it. It’s a very deep one because it’s about letting the world manifest. Letting the world, in the sense the world of experience, manifest good fortune naturally. So:

The closing prayer

Ken: When everything is known, there’s nothing to understand.

Now, several of you have already referred to this. When you know something, then you don’t need an explanation. In fact, an explanation kills it. And so stand in your knowing. And whenever those moments open up, just be right in them. That is the best way to nurture their growth and the presence in your life.

When everything is clear, there is nothing to explain.

Well, we just touched on that. You may take this as a way of approaching your life. Just try to be really clear in absolutely everything you do, and then you don’t need to explain anything.

When everything is in its place, there is nothing to do.

This is about balance. When you move in the direction of balance, there is less friction with the world. Nothing ever is perfectly in balance, but as long as you keep moving in the direction of balance—and that direction changes moment to moment—then you’re moving in accordance with the flow of things. Now you say, “Well, isn’t that rather arbitrary?” No, it’s not arbitrary at all, because the direction of things is informed by your own commitment to the bodhisattva vow, which, as we noted at the beginning of the sutra, is the intention to free all beings from the vicissitudes of samsara, and to do that without ever conceiving of a sentient being. To free all beings from the vicissitudes of samsara without ever conceiving of a sentient being. That’s one way to think about the bodhisattva vow. Okay. It’s not just about compassion. And …

May the joy of this way touch beings everywhere.

So, let’s do these prayers together.

Goodness comes from this practice I’ve done.
Let me not hold it just in me.
Let it spread to all that is known.
And awaken good throughout the world.

Awakening mind is precious.
May it arise where it has not arisen.
May it not fade where it has arisen.
May it ever grow and flourish.

When everything is known, there is nothing to understand.
When everything is clear. There is nothing to explain.
When everything is in its place, there’s nothing to do.
May the joy of this way touch beings everywhere.

Contemporary Session Prayers

My best wishes to all of you. It’s been a real pleasure.

Katie: Just going to make a few announcements. Thank you so much, Ken. I echo Eric’s gratitude. Thank you for choosing to do this here with us at the Alembic. It has been really special.