Introduction


The Alembic, Berkeley, California. 4 Jul, 2024.

Kati: Hi, everyone. Welcome. We’re very, very, very happy to have with us this evening, Ken McLeod. He’s starting the first of a six week series on practicing the Diamond Sutra. How many of you have read the Diamond Sutra already? Amazing. So a lot of you will be encountering it for the first time in this class. And I want to say that this is just a very special occasion. Ken has been here once before and it was an evening that is a highlight of Alembic’s short—so far—history, and I’m sure it will continue to be a highlight as Alembic continues into the future and all of us together engaging with this sutra is something that people have been coming together to do together for a very long time. And here we are participating in this history. So it’s an honor and a privilege to be here with you, Ken, and with all of you.

A few logistical points before we get started. It is highly, highly preferable that you attend all six classes in person. If your house gets hit by a meteor and you have to miss one, you do have a link to the recording so you can review the recordings. We are also live streaming this to the internet. The internet is up there on the ceiling. Of course. Hello, internet. If sound goes through one of the microphones, it goes out onto the live stream. So if there’s any point where you want or feel like you need to share something that’s very sensitive that you don’t want to share with the internet, just Just don’t say it into a microphone. It won’t go on the internet.

Please take care of yourself during the class. Unless Ken says so, you can kind of come and go. So if you have to go to the bathroom or if you get thirsty, you can do that, you can leave the room. The bathrooms are at the end of the hall on the right. And when each class ends, you are welcome to stay afterwards for tea and to chat with your fellow Diamond Sutra practitioners.

How many of you have not been to something at The Alembic before? The laugh is because Michael teaches here every Thursday. For those of you who actually haven’t been here before. We are a non-profit space that runs classes, workshops, events,and our aim is to help practitioners become well rounded according to their own goals. So we are pan-traditional, and we offer things across all different traditions, ways of knowing, including, Buddhism, the occult, science, psychedelics and other things that kind of defy categorization. And the idea is that you can come here and sample many different things. And then when you find your thing, you’re able to go very deep with that. And so all of the teachers we bring in here are deep representatives of the wisdom that they’re representing. And Ken of course, is no exception. And, Ken, we’re very glad to have you here. Without further ado, join me, please, everyone in welcoming Ken McLeod.

Ken: Could I get a copy of the prayers?

Kati: Yes.

Why are you here?


Ken: Thank you for that very kind introduction, Kati. And one very important piece of bookkeeping. I have a notoriously soft voice, so if it drops below the level of audibility, please do something suitably frantic to get my attention. I’d like to begin a little informally. Most of you probably don’t know me very well. I certainly don’t know most of you. So the first thing I would like to do is to hear from a few of you why you are here. And we can do this, like popcorn when you’re ready. And I’d like you to keep it to one sentence, because anything that you say I’m going to repeat so that it is recorded and does go out over the internet as part of the stream and as part of the recording of the series. So anybody if not, I’m very capable of picking you. So it’s up to you whether … Please. Sure.

Peter: My name is Peter. I’m excited about The Magic of Vajrayana, so I’m familiar with the work, and I’m very excited about the Diamond Sutra, your take on it. And working through the Avatamsaka Sutra and reading the Diamond Sutra.

Ken: So, thank you very much, first names only, please. Peter says he knows the Magic of Vajrayana, and he is working through the Avatamsaka Sutra. And you’re excited about the Diamond Sutra? If I may probe a little bit. What about the Diamond Sutra catches your attention?

Peter: Probably the inscrutability, at first glance.

Ken: The inscrutability. Yeah, that’s a good place to start. Okay. Anybody else? Yes.

Brennan: My name is Brennan and I know nothing. And so I’d like to learn more.

Ken: You know nothing. Are you bragging?

Brennan: Wrong class for that. I know nothing about the Diamond Sutra.

Ken: Still hedging there. And you’d like to learn more? Why?

Brennan: General interest.

Ken: Oh, no, it’s never a general interest. Take a moment.

Brennan: Sure.

Ken: Feel it and then say it.

Brennan: I feel like this is an important part of my spiritual journey.

Ken: Thank you. Yes.

Jess: I’m Jess. I read Wake Up to Your Life and The Magic of Vajrayana. And in both cases, particularly about … [unclear] practice. It took something that I had read and intellectually understood for a long time, and I suddenly could do it, could actually do practice. And so I feel a lot of gratitude towards you as a writer and a teacher. And I saw you were teaching in person in the Bay. When’s that ever going to happen again? I don’t know anything about the Diamond Sutra.

Ken: Jess knows nothing about the Diamond Sutra, but is familiar with Wake Up to Your Life and The Magic of Vajrayana, and she found the latter quite helpful in her Vajrayana practice.Thank you. Yes?

Lulu: I remember reading your newsletter about how to read a sutra, and I always find it very difficult to read. I just find I’m super bored when I read a sutra. And your newsletter, kind of inspired me. Okay, there is a different way of reading sutra, but still, I don’t know how to. Okay. So that’s why I came.

Ken: And your name?

Lulu: Lulu.

Ken: Lulu. Okay. So, uh, you found reading sutras very boring. I think you should take up the Avatamsaka Sutra and or the Lotus Sutra. But you got something out of that newsletter, is that right? Yes.

Lulu: About … metaphorically or there is something like emotional stuff. But I think after that newsletter, I tried, I gave some …

Ken: I’m sorry. I feel like there’s something missing, so you want to learn how to read a sutra? Yes. Well, I think this is very good. Oh. One more. Okay. And then we’ll… were you waving your hand?

Karen: No, but I’ll go. I’m Karen.

Ken: Yes. It was you. I thought you were holding up your hand.

Karen: I’m Karen, and I came because I love The Trackless Path. It was one of my favorite books. And I know very little about the Diamond Sutra, but I do hope that it will deepen my practice.

Ken: So from familiarity with A Trackless Path, you’re coming here to explore the Diamond Sutra and you hope it will help you in your practice. Is that correct? Yes, yes.

Diana: My name’s Diana.I think going on from Lulu, I’m here because I want to learn how to decode sutras.

Ken: How to decode sutras. We have a program for that.

Diana: But, like to uncover the …

Ken: Well, thank you very much. And this is extremely helpful because it gives me an idea, at least, where some of you are coming from. And that is a lot more information than I had five minutes ago. So thank you.

Opening and closing prayers


Ken: I’d like to start with these prayers. And I will confess, I had no idea what I was going to do in this class until sometime this morning. I’m not quite sure what the format for future classes is going to be, but we have two or three parts to the program for this evening. We’ll see how that works. And then we’ll meet again next week and either change it or continue.

In the Tibetan tradition, one of the things that my teacher, taught again and again was the opening and closing of formal sessions of meditation. And this is a set of prayers that I put together myself, all of which have spoken to me, and all of which I’m very familiar with. And I’d like to read them with you as a way of setting the tone. And there are six prayers here, three at the beginning and three at the end. We’ll do the three at the beginning now, but I’m going to take a period of time each week to talk about one of these six prayers. And we’ve got six sessions, so it should work out at the end. So let’s just go through these. And if we do this together please.

May my heart turn to practice.
May practice become a path.
May this path dissolve confusion.
May confusion become wisdom.

Ken: Now, if you pause here momentarily,for reasons I’ll probably go into next week, I’m experimenting—and I’m sorry, you’re all guinea pigs—with using the word sanctuary instead of refuge. For those of you who are familiar with Buddhist terminology. So that is why this appears. The actual prayer is one that I wrote about 12 years ago, so it’s a little unusual in terms of refuge prayers, but I hope it speaks to you. We’ll do this three times.

Knowing there is nothing outside or inside to free me,
I seek sanctuary in buddha.
Knowing that experience and awareness are not two,
I seek sanctuary in dharma,
Knowing there is nothing to grasp or to impose,
I seek sanctuary in sangha.
Knowing there is nothing outside or inside to free me,
I seek sanctuary in buddha.
Knowing that experience and awareness are not two,
I seek sanctuary in dharma.
Knowing there is nothing to grasp or oppose,
I seek sanctuary in sangha.
Knowing there is nothing outside or inside to free me,
I seek sanctuary in buddha.
Knowing that experience and awareness are not two,
I seek sanctuary in dharma.
Knowing there is nothing to grasp or oppose,
I seek sanctuary in sangha.

Ken: The next one, which is on the back side is taken really from the Zen tradition, where they’re known as the four great vows. These, as you can see in the notes, are derived or a summary in a certain way of some of the ideas in the Avatamsaka Sutra. And if you want to know more about the Avatamsaka Sutra, it’s these people up here. They seem to be familiar with it. This is expression of our intention.

Beings are numberless.
May I free them all.
Reactions are endless.
May I release them all.
Doors to experience our infinite.
May I enter them all.
Ways of awakening are limitless.
May I know them all.

Beings are numberless.
May I free them all.
Reactions are endless.
May I release them all.
Doors to experience are infinite.
May I enter them all.
Ways of awakening are limitless.
May I know them all.

Beings are numberless.
May I free them all.
Reactions are endless.
May I release them all.
Doors to experience are infinite.
May I enter them all.
Ways of awakening are limitless.
May I know them all.

Ken: Okay, Now let’s turn back to the first prayer. This prayer was written in Tibetan, oh 800, 900 years ago. It was written by a teacher or a master. And his name is Gampopa. He was a doctor at first. And even as a young man, he was an extremely good doctor. He had a lovely young wife, and she contracted an illness, and he could not cure her. And she died. He was so devastated by that, he said, “What is the point of the ways of the world?” And this is what led him to become a monk. And he studied in a tradition which put an emphasis, quite an emphasis, on logic and reason, and specialized in the main canonical texts which had been brought from India. But at a certain point he was drawn or called to leave that and seek out a mountain yogin, a mountain hermit. His name was Milarepa. And he studied with him the high level energy transformation techniques, and the actual very deep practice of mystical Buddhism, and became one of Milarepa’s spiritual heirs. He holds a special tradition, a position in the Tibetan tradition, because he combined these two streams of the scholastic training in the canonical texts with this hermit tradition focused on yoga and transformation techniques. And I have the good fortune to have been trained in that tradition. The Tibetan is quite lovely, and I’ve tried to echo the Tibetan in the English. And the first thing to note here is that you have “my heart turn to practice.” Practice to path. Path brings out confusion. In confusion you can discover wisdom and that reflects the structure of the Tibetan. It’s something I noticed after saying this prayer for, I don’t know, 20 or 30 years. “Oh yes, I’ve never noticed that before.” So I’ve sought to replicate that in the English.

The word that is usually put here is mind. May my mind turn to the dharma, turn to practice. Actually it says mind turn to the dharma. I’ve always felt that mind in English, puts the emphasis on the intellect. So I chose the word heart here. The word mind in Sanskrit and Tibetan can also mean heart. It doesn’t have quite the same division that we have in English. And I have certainly found through my own practice that the emotional element in practice is at least as important, if not more important, than the intellectual. So when you read this line. I would like you to consider whatever calls you to this kind of endeavor. And I like the English word calling here because this line is about allowing yourself to respond to that calling.

Meeting your path, practice or calling


Ken: The next line, you meet the dharma. You meet a practice. But it’s a little confusing at first. At least it was for me. It was very confusing at first. I had so much to learn and so much to let go of. But somehow, through that process I realized I had found a path. I don’t think it was a conscious realization. And those of you who’ve read some of my books know it wasn’t a particularly easy path for me. Many times people have asked me, “Why didn’t you stop?” And I’ve had to think about that question very deeply, because it was asked quite a few times. And there are two things I came to, and I explored it psychologically. Was this interest in spiritual practice some compensation for something else? I just couldn’t find it. So I let all of that stuff go, and I came to two understandings. One is, the idea of stopping simply didn’t make any sense. I don’t mean I couldn’t understand what it means. I understood what it means. It just didn’t make any sense. And it just wasn’t an option in my framework. And the other is that when you find a path in your life. You have a choice to make. You can follow it or obey it, whatever the right word is for you. Or you can keep it at arm’s length and dabble in it or something like that, or maybe even forget about it completely. I think the most important thing one can do in life is to strive to live a life of no regret. And I can tell you that for most of the people I know, when they have found such a path and they have followed it, no matter how difficult it has been, it is not something they ever regret.

So that’s something for you to consider, because when you take that approach, you don’t know where you’re going to go. You enter into a mystery, to use a phrase that Wendell Berry likes to use. And you don’t know what’s going to happen. And yet everything that happens is your life, and you have to deal with it one way or another. I always found it very strange when people said, “I don’t know how I’m going to deal with this,” because I knew this was a circumstance in their life that they were going to deal with. The question was, how gracefully were they going to deal with it? It is through this choicelessness that you realize all the ways that you’re confused. They’re just thrown up in your face time and time again, and you find a way through them. And in finding a way through them, little by little, the confusion begins to thin out, and you find, “Oh yeah, I know what to do in that situation.” You’re not quite sure where the knowing comes from, but it’s there. And so that’s this third line. You take this path, and the confusion begins to thin out or dissolve. That’s very important because as the confusion begins to thin out and dissolve, you’re actually able to see more. You’re able to feel more. In short, you become more present in your life. There’s a little catch here. As you become more aware, you have less and less choice about what you are aware of.

The catch 22 of choice


Ken: Nobody mentions that catch 22. So I’ve had people say, “Well, can you choose?” No you can’t. You’re aware. That’s what it means. And as you’ll see, this is really what the Diamond Sutra is about. The real catch in this: the more aware you are, the more responsibility you have in your life. Because once you’re aware of it, you can’t simply ignore it. Your opportunities for vacations from knowing become less and less. Does anybody want to do this, seriously? No. But in this process, something else is beginning to happen. A kind of knowing. A kind of knowing that does not depend on the intellect or reason begins to become available to you. And the shocker, the really surprising thing, is that you find that knowing in the very heart of your confusion. It seems like a paradox. But if you’re angry, that’s one aspect of confusion.

If through your practice, which you’ve learned and you’ve learned the skills, and you’ve built the capabilities which actually enable you to do this, you go to the very heart of that anger. And you find you’re just there, and very, very clear. And you didn’t do anything to get there. And it’s the same with all of the other emotions. The one thing that you’re losing through this process, or every step of the way, is any control about your life. So if you’re a control freak, just run out of the room right now. Okay. Anybody like to ask any questions about this? Yeah. Go ahead. We’ve got a question, obviously.

Student questions


Student: I don’t know what my question is yet.

Ken: Well, you’ve got 30 seconds.

Student: What are we doing here?

Ken: No. What are you doing?

Student: Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask.

Ken: Well, no, you’re the only one who can answer that. Yeah. So what are you doing here? There’s another person. Take a moment and come back to it. Somebody else had a question back here? Yes.

Student: I’ve had the experience where kind of knowledge just bubbles up. I’m not searching for it. Is that … ?

Ken: Yeah. We’ll get all kinds of that stuff happening because as we clear away confusion, or as confusion is cleared away, as the lock of certain emotions is released, all of the energy that’s been locked up inside that becomes free and available to us. And we didn’t even know it was there. So, yeah, you see things differently, and people build whole religions out of that kind of bubbling stuff, and they’re all wrong, but they really do. I come across it again and again. This is why it’s really important to be in touch with a tradition that knows this stuff. Because you can get fooled. Six ways to Sunday. And I’ve just remembered something I did not say at the beginning. And then I’ll come back to you. Pardon?

Student: Are they wrong because they’re dualistic?

Ken: No, they’re wrong just because of their stuff. They present themselves as this incredibly deep wisdom, but it’s just something that’s bubbling up, you know, and maybe a little flash or insight there or something like that, but you can’t build anything on it because it’s way too unstable. So I have what I forgot to mention right at the beginning. So I’m going to go back there. My intention for our course together. The first thing that I wish for, if you don’t take anything else out of this course, other than it’s really helpful to interact with a teacher, I’d be very happy if that’s the only thing you take. Because as you can see, we’re going to do a fair amount of interaction here. I hope you’re up for it. And that’s why I insisted on doing this in person, because it’s only by being in the same space together that you can really do this. You can do it to a certain extent over Zoom, but it’s just not the same. And the second intention is that you’ll learn a bit about reading a sutra seriously, because it’s different. Okay. You’ve had all the time in the world here. What have you got?

Student: Yeah, sure. Why is it so easy? Sometimes it appears so easy. And then all of a sudden appears so hard? This path, this path of … committed to the …

Ken: I can tell you what a friend of mine says. When it’s easy, you’re not getting anywhere. When it’s difficult, you’re enjoying the fruits of the path. Congratulations. Another person once said, “Please signify your interest in pursuing this path by hitting yourself over the head with this hammer.” Okay. Any other questions about this prayer? Yes.

Student: I was very interested in what you said about going deep into the confusion. Yes. Deep into anger or whatever confused arising might be happening. And when you say that, I feel like I have some sense of what doing that would be, but I was wondering, if this is an appropriate time for it, I’d love to hear some specifics about what that means to you and how one might go about doing.

Ken: So the question is, “What does going deep mean and how do you do it?” Was that fair? Great. Thank you. So, there are many different ways one can approach this, but I’m going to say that going deep in the context that I’m using, it means experiencing it completely. Oh dear. Oh, dear. I was hoping he wouldn’t show up tonight, but he did. How many of you are familiar with Mulla Nasrudin? Yes. Well, he just showed up. Mullah Nasrudin, how many of you have never heard of Mullah Nasrudin? Oh, dear. Okay, well, tradition says that we have to tell seven stories. Whenever one story is told—we’re not going to try and do seven tonight, but we’ll do seven over the course. Here’s number one. It’s a good one to start with.

A Sufi teaching story


Ken: So Mullah Nasrudin is a folk hero who is known from Morocco to Beijing; Kazakhstan; Turkestan. Those countries in there. Uzbekistan. Yes. I have a statue of Mullah Nasrudin. It’s from Uzbekistan. They like to claim ownership, but basically he is completely beyond ownership. And he takes different guises in different stories. And in this particular story, he’s a magistrate. And one day this person comes into his court dressed in his underwear. He says, “What are you doing here, sir?”

“I have been robbed. I’m visiting your town. And as you can see, I have been robbed. Everything has been taken away from me.”

Nasrudin looked at him very, very carefully. “Well, I’m very sorry to hear this, sir, but I see you have your underwear.” “Well, yes.” “Well, I know he’s not from this village. We do things very thoroughly around here.”

You experience your anger. Until there’s nothing left to experience. Now, how do you do that? You have to have the skills and the capacity. You also have to have the willingness. But I’m assuming the willingness right now. You have to know how to stay in the anger without losing attention and without being consumed by the anger. Or to put it another way, without expressing it or repressing it. There’s lots of people who practice meditation, and they’re very good at repressing stuff, and there are quite a few who are very good at expressing stuff too. But you don’t do either of those because when you express something, it goes out.

You know, my old office partner is a great guy, but he had a very volatile temper and was well known in his field of work for losing his temper over anything. We shared an office for four years. It was great. And one time I came into his office and he was sitting in his office with his feet up on his desk, with his hands folded over his chest, scowling. I said, “Dave, what’s eating you?” He said, “It was much easier when I could express my anger. I said, “Good for you.”

So that’s a skill. But there’s also a capacity as you may not be able to experience all of your anger right now. It’s just too much. So this is why we practice meditation and why we work at this in meditation. And some people start by putting their anger on the other side of the room. Some have to put it on the other side of the galaxy, and then you can move it closer and closer until you can actually experience it. I’ve done this actually with people. Probably could have done the demo tonight where I have a cushion, represent the anger and I’ll sort of bring it closer and they say, “That’s close enough.” So that’s it.

Meditation: seeing from the inside


Ken: And the key here is to work the edge, go to what you can do and come back that much. Just a tiny, tiny bit. So you’re working the edge, and that way you’re not sitting where it’s easy, but you’re not in chaos either. And that is how you increase your skills and increase your capacity. Now, if you want a specific meditation, the one that I favor is a one that was developed by Thich Nhat Hanh. You’ll find it on my website under, “Seeing from the Inside.” That’s it. Okay, type: “seeing from the inside unfettered mind” into Google, and it’ll probably show up. Okay. Any other questions? All right. Oh, yes.

Student: I have a question. So in knowing that knowing comes from confusion, and in knowing comes great responsibility. And then also he said that one sits in confusion and suffering and pain far longer than necessary.

Ken: Could you repeat that last part? I couldn’t hear.

Student: Could it also then be said or assumed that one may sit in chaos and suffering a lot longer for fear of responsibility?

Ken: Interesting question. I’m going to have to think about this. Thank you. So the question is, “Knowing you come into confusion and knowing comes from confusion. With greater knowing comes greater responsibility. Is there the possibility of not going deep in your meditation because you’re afraid of the responsibility?”

Student: For tasting it? Because then you have a taste. It’s a process.

Ken: This is really quite fascinating. Thank you. No, seriously. Is this something that you are a little uneasy about?

Student: I think it’s something I experienced.

Ken: Oh okay. So, let’s go back to the four vows. How are you with the first line? Beings are numberless. May I free them all.

Student: Yes, I agree.

Ken: You can go with that. Well, you can accept that?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Okay. You can say. Yeah, “That’s something I’m willing to do,” because I’ve run into people, quite seriously, who take a look at that line and say, “Nope, don’t want to do that. I’m not. I’m not committing to that.” In a certain sense, they’re very sensible. But, that’s not this path. How about reactions are endless?

Student: I agree, reactions are endless.

Ken: Yeah, but are you willing to commit to that? Actually.

Student: I think that’s where I diverge.

Ken: Okay. Well, that was easy. Now we found out where … good. Thank you. Okay, so this goes back to this gentleman’s point. Okay. This is a question about increasing skill and increasing capacity. And that’s how you approach this. So I’m going to make the assumption that you’re here because that’s what you want to do. Is that fair?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Okay, good. Because when somebody answers no to that, I’m really stuck. So then whenever you find yourself bumping into this—and you know where that is—just stop right there and experience what is going on in you, and not just when you’re meditating on the cushion. If you’re having this in the middle of a conversation with somebody and you bump into it and you go, oh, just stop right there and just take a couple of breaths right there. Now, nobody’s ever going to notice this because they’re just going to notice that you’re quiet and they think, “Oh, she’s thinking about what she’s going to say next.” And they’re just going to be so expectant. They’re going to think whatever you say is going to be brilliant because you’re thinking about it. So it’s not going to cause a problem in your interactions at all. It actually works in your favor.

Student: But what I was thinking was that you can take that time and you can cultivate this peace and this gratitude and express that, but I feel more fearful of those negative feelings and emotions. Yes. And you can always transform them. But then are you taking away from that experience?

Ken: You can transform them? How do you do that? I want to know. I’ve never discovered anybody who can transform those negative feelings.

Student: I mean. They’re all there, but it’s how you …

Ken: It’s about developing a different relationship with them. Okay, so think of a negative feeling right now. Jealousy. Pride. Take your choice. There’s lots, I hear. Yeah. Okay. [Laughter]

Student: Okay.

Ken: Okay, so pick one that you’ve had in the last 24 hours. Just pick the feeling you don’t have to name the circumstance or anything.

Student: Pain.

Ken: No,pain’s a sensation, a negative feeling.

Student: Anger.

Ken: Anger. Okay. There you are. That’s one everybody goes to. Okay, so just conjure up the anger right now. Got it.

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Okay. Let it go right now. Seriously, were you able to do that?

Student: It’s there.

Ken: Okay. Is it affecting you?

Student: Not in this physical moment.

Ken: Okay. Different relationship with it. Okay. That’s the shift. Now, can you always do this? No. It can be difficult sometimes. Really difficult sometimes. But that’s the shift. One is you’re being consumed by the anger, and the other is it’s just something in your mind. That possibility is always available. But don’t get into this business of transforming the anger. It’s not how it works. Almost always, the people who get into that kind of stuff end up suppressing their anger. So I don’t want you to go down that road. Okay. I know they talk about this in the Tibetan tradition—transforming—but it’s different, and we’ll probably get to it in the course of the Diamond Sutra, even though that’s not what the Diamond Sutra is about at all. But I just want to give you that. Just: there’s the anger, “Okay? I’m angry.” I’ll give you a little bit extra if you want. Are you willing to go for a little bit more?

Student: Sure.

Ken: Okay. So bring the anger back and feel it as completely as you can.

Student: Okay.

Ken: Okay. Now I’m going to say something, and I just want you to say it immediately without thinking about it, okay? I’m angry, and I’m glad. What happens?

Student: [Unclear]

Ken: Yeah. What happened to the anger?

Student: It became something I totally accept and find pride in.

Ken: I didn’t hear the last word.

Student: I said, it became something I accept and find pride in.

Ken: Find pride in. Oh, you went a little too far. [Laughter] Okay, but you get the point. When you say “I’m angry and I’m glad,” suddenly you’re not angry anymore. Yeah. Okay. That’s a little trick you can use sometime. And you’re absolutely right. It comes. That happens, because when you say, “I’m glad” you take down the barrier you have about feeling the anger. You feel the anger and yes, every feeling that comes up in us, what does it want? It wants to be felt. Okay. That’s the function of feelings is to be felt. So every time you try to suppress a feeling, you’re actually denying that feeling its reason for existence. And it tends to get a little upset about that, as you may have noticed. How much better if we develop the capacity to experience the feeling.

Sufi story: the lamp shop


Ken: Okay, now it’s time for stage two. I need two volunteers. We’re going to stage a play. I have your lines. I need two volunteers. Okay. One, two. Please come up. Who wants to be blue? And who wants to be pink?

You’re blue. You’re pink. Now, this is one of my favorite stories. The book that I’ve taken this from is this one: Tales of the Dervishes by Idries Shah. And it is full of stories. They’re really quite wonderful. Sufis have the best stories, so I’m going to put on my glasses and I will read the frame, which mercifully is only two lines here for me, one at the beginning and one at the end. Then the rest is you two, and I think blue goes first, right? Yes. I may ask you to stop at various stages, at various points in this. Oh, that blue was a mistake. I’m sorry. No, that’s. No, no, it’s not supposed to be pink. It’s supposed to be blue. You don’t read it. Okay, okay. One dark night. Oh, the title of the story is The Lamp Shop.

Ken: One dark night two men met on a lonely road.

Actor 1: I’m looking for a shop near here, which is called the Lamp Shop.

Ken: Said the first man. Okay.

Actor 2: I happen to live near here and I can direct you to it.

Ken: Said the second man.

Actor 1: I should be able to find it myself. I’ve been given the directions, and I’ve written them down.

Ken: Said the first man.

Actor 2: Then why are you talking to me about it?

Ken: Okay, we stop here. What’s going on? Let’s go through it again. Read it slowly and very, very clearly. Okay. Just read your blue lines and your pink lines.

Actor 1: I’m looking for a shop near here, which is called the Lamp Shop.

Actor 2: I happen to live near here, and I can direct you to it.

Actor 1: I should be able to find it by myself. I’ve been given the directions and I’ve written them down.

Actor 2: Then why are you talking to me about it?

Ken: So what’s happening? Yes.

Student: A student not listening to their teacher.

Ken: Oh, you’re taking it way too far. Bring it down to basics here. Pardon?

Student: He’s expressing his search, and the other one offers help. And then the first party is dismissive.

Ken: Oh. Very good. Okay. So. Talks about looking for something. I could help you. No, thanks. I know what I’m doing. Does this ring any bells in anybody’s mind? Nobody’s ever done that? None of you have ever done that? Okay. Was there a comment back here somewhere? No. Okay.

Student: Plenty of times. I do that all the time.

Ken: Thank you. I’ve done it once or twice. Okay. It’s a strange thing, isn’t it? I’m looking for something. Maybe I could help you. No, thanks. Why do we do that?

Student: Defensively.

Ken: What are we being defensive about? What are we defending?

Student: Our knowledge.

Ken: Well, it sounds like we’re defending our lack of knowledge of anything.

Student: Our independence.

Ken: Our independence? Ego? Autonomy.

Student: Not looking stupid.

Ken: Not looking stupid. I think you’re beginning to get the idea. Pardon?

Student: Shame.

Ken: Possibly of shame. It could be all of the above, right? How many of you have felt a little more open than you wanted to be when somebody freely offered help. Okay, so I should be able to find it by myself. So then the person says, “Well, then why are you talking to me?” Next line please.

Actor 1: Just talking.

Actor 2: So you want company, not directions?

Actor 1: Yes, I suppose that is what it is.

Ken: Okay, let’s stop here for a moment. So the second man, the one who offered help, he’s provided the person with a very graceful exit. Said “So you wanted company?” “Yeah, I suppose that’s it.” Lets it go, which is actually a form of generosity. How many of you have heard of the four brahmaviharas or the four immeasurables? Loving kindness, compassion, joy and equanimity. The social expression of loving kindness is courtesy. Good manners is how you express loving kindness in your interaction with others. It’s very simple. The others have correspondences, but I just want to make a note of that. And the first gentleman here is being quite courteous. He isn’t trying to corner the individual. He may do so later. We’ll have to see. But he’s just saying, okay, you want companionship? Yeah, I suppose that’s it. Okay. Let’s continue. Yes, Michael.

Michael: I heard it the other way. It seems like the first person is being generous. Like, here’s what’s going on with me. He’s not actually asking for help and turns it into this transactional thing and then gets angry when it’s not translated.

Ken: Well, I suppose you could read it that way, too.

Actor 1: Well, it would be easier for you to take further directions from a local resident having got so far. Especially because from here onwards, it’s a bit difficult.

Ken: Still go with the anger thing. Michael?

Actor 1: I trust what I’ve already been told, which has brought me thus far. I cannot be sure that I can trust anything or anyone else.

Ken: Okay, so I’ll stop here. What’s happening now?

Student: It seems like you’ve been pretty frank. Like, that’s why I’m not taking directions. I don’t know you.

Ken: I don’t know, yeah, I don’t know you. I don’t know whether I can trust you. I’ve got some good information. Could be leading me astray. I’ve got these directions, I want to be on. So there’s a lot of ways that we can take this. But there’s something going on. You’re going to make a comment.

Student: Superiority?

Ken: Well, I could be. Yes. There’s a comment back here. Yes.

Student: He was searching for truth or searching for things, but somehow his attitude is mind is closed off. .

Ken: So you took what he said as closing down and pushing the other person away. Okay, so there are all these possibilities in there. The point here isn’t really to nail down the possibility, but how many of you recognize yourself somewhere in this interaction? Okay, this is your first lesson in how to read a sutra. You pay attention to what you are experiencing as you read. This is really important. This is working out much better than I ever hoped. [Laughter] Okay. Please continue.

Actor 2: So although you once trusted the original informant, you have not been taught a means of knowing whom you can trust.

Ken: I’d like you to read that line again a little more loudly. And it’s really very important.

Actor 2: So although you once trusted the original informant, you have not been taught a means of knowing whom you can trust.

Ken: Does that ring any bells in anybody? Okay. You want to say a word?

Student: It’s more self-protective to only trust so many people. So if you trust the first person and you’re like, now, I don’t have to trust anybody again, this will take me as far as I need to go. But to keep getting advice, you can keep up with yourself.

Ken: So continuing to extend trust requires you to be more and more open. That’s a really good point. I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I think you’re absolutely right. I can see this in all kinds of people, that people don’t want to rely, feel dependent or reliance or something like that. It’s too scary for some reason. Thank you very much. Any other points? Yes.

Student: It feels kind of like this guy has a goal-oriented process and he’s saying, you know, if you had a system-oriented process, maybe you have a better time right now.

Ken: Okay, that’s getting a little above my pay grade. Okay. Let’s continue.

Actor 1: That is so.

Actor 2: Have you any other aim?

Actor 1: No. Just to find the lamp shop.

Actor 2: May I ask why you seek a lamp shop?

Actor 1: Because I’ve been told on the highest authority that it is where they supply certain devices which enable a person to read in the dark.

Ken: I want you to go back to the one before.

Actor 2: May I ask why you seek a lamp shop?

Ken: Okay, now, this is very important. You’ve already noticed this evening that I’ve asked several of you when we’ve engaged, “Why?” Okay. And here is the why question coming up. One of the things about spiritual practice is you need to know why you are doing it. It’s very, very important. If you don’t know why you are doing it, you will almost certainly end up practicing somebody else’s agenda. You need to know why you are doing it. How do you get there? There are a lot of different ways. One is ask yourself why five times? “Why am I doing this?” You get one answer, but there’ll be something in that answer that you can ask. “Well, why is it that?” And then you do that, it starts to get quite difficult around the third or fourth. Why? That’s why you take it to five. At that point, you may not be able to say anything, but there will be a feeling in you. You may not be able to give any words to that feeling, but there will be a palpable sensation somewhere in your body. And that is what is motivating you. And this is maybe the first time you actually touch it, And that’s fine. You don’t necessarily have to give it words, but you must be in touch with it. That’s really important. And the purpose of the prayers that we do at the beginning is actually to create the conditions so that you do start touching into that.

Ken: And so sometimes it’ll be a person in a quasi teacher role who’ll be asking you that. But this is something you can learn to do yourself. The other thing is that at various points, it’s quite likely that your practice is going to go stale. And it’s like, “Ah, it doesn’t mean that. I don’t know why I’m doing it anymore.” And you’ll find that it becomes unstable and you can’t really focus or what have you. And basically, it’s because your capacity in attention has exceeded your capacity in intention. So that’s why you have to ask the same the questions again. “Why am I doing this?” You have to be more in touch with your intention and bring intention and attention into balance. And a good friend of mine pointed out, it’s also possible for your intention to be greater than your capacity in attention. So you have these two things, and when that happens, you can get carried away with things and things become unstable in a different way. So you have attention, which is how much energy you can put into it. And then you have the intention, what is motivating. And you need to keep those more or less in balance so that they reinforce each other. That’s the optimal way to practice. Okay. So this part is very, very important. “Why are you looking for a lamp shop now?” Please read your reply.

Actor 1: Because I’ve been told by the highest authority that it is where they supply certain devices which enable a person to read in the dark.

Ken: And I’d like you to read that again, putting great reverence into the phrase “on the highest authority.”

Actor 1: Because I’ve been told on the highest authority—

Ken: Oh, lovely!

Actor 2: —that it is where they supply certain devices which enable a person to read in the dark.

Ken: Okay, so he’s given a pretty solid answer to this, right? Makes sense. Allows you to have certain devices which enable you to read in the dark. Michael?

Michael: [Unclear]

Ken: Hey, don’t spoil the story. Be patient. Please. What’s your name?

Antonio: Antonio.

Ken: Antonio. Okay. And you are?

Sambit: Sambit. S-A-M-B-I-T.

Ken: Sambit. Okay. Antonio and Sambit. Antonio, I think it’s on you now.

Antonio: You are correct. But there is a prerequisite and also a piece of information.

Ken: Okay. Say that again, please. Really loudly and clearly.

Antonio: You are correct. But there is a prerequisite and also a piece of information.

Ken: So there’s a prerequisite and a piece of information. So just out of curiosity, how many of you have tried to skip over prerequisites in your life, and how many of you have embarked upon things with, shall we say, inadequate information? Yeah. Me too. This person’s just stating a fact. You know, you’re doing this and there’s something you have to be able to do. And there’s some other information that might be important. So Sambit, please.

Sambit: What are they?

Antonio: The prerequisite for reading by means of a lamp is that you can already read.

Ken: Please read that again.

Antonio: The prerequisite to reading by means of a lamp is that you can already read.

Ken: You can already read. Now, I love this line in the story because it never occurs to us. “He knows how to read, obviously,” but how many of you, say in your meditation practice, have stumbled across something that seems absolutely straightforward and you had missed it completely? Yeah. Okay, so you see where we’re going with this story. That’s great. Sambit. Your turn.

Sambit: You cannot prove that. [Laughter]

Ken: Antonio. Please continue.

Antonio: Certainly not on a dark night like this.

Ken: This is the dilemma. Speaking as someone … I’ve been on both sides of this. I’m going to speak as a teacher at this point. “How do you know that?” “Well, I know it, but I can’t explain it to you.” “Why?” “Because in something like spiritual practice, there are different levels.” In the same way that there are different levels in mathematics, and there’s different levels in jazz and there’s different levels in basketball, things like that. And what makes sense at one level doesn’t make sense at another level. And what makes sense at another level doesn’t make sense at a third level. One of the marks of a really good quality—a good book on spiritual practice—is that it reveals different levels of meaning as your practice progresses. And so you come back to it 3 or 4 years later and you go, “Huh, that’s not what I used to understand in the past. It’s totally different.” I had a wonderful example of this. How are we doing for time? We’ve got until 9:00, right? No, 8;30. Okay. We’ll get to the Diamond Sutra very shortly. Is anybody finding any value in this? Okay, then I’ll keep going.

Ken: I was introduced to this fund manager. He, at that point—this was back in the early 90’s—he managed a private investment of something like $250 million dollars. And he was introduced to me because he’d expressed an interest in meditation. So that’s what I was doing. And this was at a wedding. and so we just had time for a quick chat, and he said, “Can you give me something to read?”

I recommended a book, and I’m sure almost everybody here will know about it. Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind. It’s a wonderful book.

So, he said, “Thank you very much.” And then he said, “I have to go traveling now and look at these investments, etc., so I’ll give you a call in six months.” And actually he did. So six months later, I went round to his place and we sat down and he said, “By the way, that book was completely ridiculous. I couldn’t understand a word of it.” I didn’t say anything.

I said, “Okay, it’s fine.” And so I gave him some meditation instructions, etc., and I would meet with him periodically.

Nine months later he said, “I have to go on another business trip and I want to travel light. Can you recommend a book that I could take that so I can keep in touch with this?”

I said, “Well, I know you’re going to object to this, but I’m going to recommend you take the same book.”

He sort of looked at me, “Really?”

I said, “Yeah, really.”

Well, he’d built up some trust in me by that point, and he said, “Okay.” So, a couple of months later, I get this phone call, “I’m back from my business trip. I’d like to see you. By the way, could you order me a dozen of those books?”

And the fact is that over those nine months, he’d had enough experience of meditation that he could actually understand what Suzuki Roshi was talking about, which he couldn’t at the beginning because he just didn’t have enough experience there. This is the way a good book works.

So prerequisite information first, but there’s no way I could have persuaded him that the book had more meaning. This is something that he had to discover in his own way. And so here we have this little impasse, he says, “Well, you can’t prove that.” And the teacher absolutely can’t prove it, because here, “Not in the middle of this dark night,” this is the ignorance that we’re in. And this is where some component of trust absolutely has to enter the picture because you’re in the dark. Okay. Sambit?

Sambit: What is the piece of information?

Antonio: The piece of information is that the lamp shop is still where it always was, but that the lamps themselves have been moved somewhere else.

Ken: Okay, so you got that. The requisite is that you actually have to know how to read if you’re going to read it. To use a lamp, you actually have to know how to read. And the guy says, “Well, you can’t prove that.” The piece of information is … read the piece of information again.

Antonio: The lamp shop is still where it always was, but the lamps themselves have been moved somewhere else.

Ken: Now, here, one way I read this is that—this is a Sufi story, and they were very well aware of this—that spiritual groups work very well for a while. But human beings are social animals, and it is only a matter of time until social agendas take over and make the group useless for spiritual work. At which point you have an option. You either disrupt the group so it has to completely reform and rejig itself etc., like that. And you do that periodically. And the people who really want the social agendas give up and leave, and the ones who are really interested in spiritual practice stay. Or you just give up on the group and you go somewhere else and start a new one. So the setting of social agendas in a group is something that will always be encountered and something you need to be aware of. Because when the social agendas come to dominate as they do inevitably, then the group becomes less useful and it may become completely unworkable for spiritual purposes. This is not something a lot of people talk about, but I’m going to make a point of it. Okay. Let’s continue.

Sambit: I do not know what a lamp is, but it seems—

Ken: You hear that. He doesn’t even know what a lamp is. Can’t read, doesn’t know what a lamp is.

Sambit: I do not know what a lamp is, but it seems obvious to me that the lamp shop is the place to locate such a device. That is, after all, why it is called a lamp shop.

Ken: Sounds perfectly reasonable, doesn’t it?

Antonio: But a lamp shop may have two different meanings, each opposed to the other. The meanings are: a place where lamps may be obtained, and a place where lamps were once obtained but which now has none.

Sambit: You cannot prove that. [Laughter]

Antonio: You would seem like an idiot …

Ken: Just said no, no, no … [unclear]. We have the same situation, okay. There are places in England that still carry names from 400 years ago like some castles or manors where the old wing, which was put on 100 years after, oh sorry, the new wing, which is put on 100 years after the house or the castle was actually built 300 years later, is still being called the new wing. And so names tend to stick around for a long time, and they may or may not refer to what they did originally.

Student: Berkeley Bowl

Ken: Berkeley what?

Student: Berkeley Bowl. It used to be a bowling alley. It’s now converted into a grocery store, but …

Ken: But it’s still called the Berkeley Bowl. Well, thank you very much. Perfect example. Great. Okay. Please continue. Yes. Your line. You can’t prove that.

Sambit: You cannot prove that.

Ken: So here we have this thing again. How many of you asked for proof that your meditation practice is going to work? Okay. Again, I had lots of students who would ask for that. I eventually figured out a tactic to use with them. They would usually ask me about three months after they had started a meditation practice, and I knew that if I could get them to 5 or 6 months, their question would change. So I would just throw up a whole bunch of smoke and mirrors. [Laughter] And one way or another, get them to continue practicing. And then around 5 or 6 months they would come in and something had shifted inside. And now they knew that something was happening in their practice and often couldn’t put it into words, but something had changed in how they felt or whatever they were practicing on a regular basis. Usually takes about that long. For some people it’s less, but something was beginning to wake up in them and I just had to get them to that point. Because any explanation at this point that you get from outside doesn’t help. That puts you in danger of practicing on somebody else’s agenda. You have to feel it in yourself. And this is something that your teacher should help you by pointing it out to you when it happens. And it can happen in very strange, very subtle ways or situations. I had one person who came to see me for anxiety disorder. And she would just panic in all kinds of situations. And so I gave her a sitting meditation practice, which has actually been extremely effective for anxiety disorders. And about six months later she was telling me about this situation, which ordinarily would have sent her into panic and I said, “Do you realize that you just told me about the situation and you walked through it without incident?” And she just went, “Oh yeah, so what?” And continued on, because it had become so much part of her, that it wasn’t remarkable at all. And she had completely forgotten that she was ever subject to panic attacks.

Antonio: You would seem like an idiot to many people.

Ken: Now, here we have a very important point. How many times has one person shut the other person down? Like, no, I don’t, I can’t trust you. I don’t know whether I can trust you. Can you prove that? How many times? Yeah, 3 or 4 at least. When you go through the same dynamic three times, you’re in a pattern, and you have a choice. You either change the conversation. It has to be about something, about the pattern now, or you have to accept that as part of the relationship, and the fact that it’s never going to change. Or it will only change when the other person chooses to do something about it. What I call the rule of three. It’s really, really important. It’s going to save a lot of fights. So if somebody does something, you ask them, “Please don’t do that.” And they do it again. You get three chances. After that, you’re in a fight. You become a nag or whatever, however you want to put it, and you have to make a decision, is it a deal breaker, or can you live with it? I just wanted to point that out. So at this point … that’s why he says at this point you seem like an idiot because it’s already gone over the top. No, no, no,no, no, no hasn’t accepted any of these things.

Sambit: But there are many people who would call you an idiot, yet perhaps you are not. You probably have an ulterior motive.

Ken: I just want you to stop there. Okay, so here’s the refutation. I want you to listen to the refutation very, very carefully.

Sambit: But there are many people who would call you an idiot. Yet perhaps you are not. You probably have an ulterior motive sending me off to some place where lamps are sold by a friend of yours. Or perhaps you do not want me to have a lamp at all.

Ken: Now, I just wanted to step in here. This is what happens, that when you reach this impasse, this person is trying to give out an explanation, but he can only give an explanation at the level that he is operating. So everything goes down a notch. He’s ascribing all of these motivations to the person, and he doesn’t know where this person is coming from at all. He’s refused all the help, and now he’s ascribing all of these less than generous motivations to him. This is actually what happens. And watch for that when you’re in a conflict that somebody will drop down to a lower level and, talking about things, and you may find yourself suddenly on the defensive. But this is not how this person responds. Let’s hear this. Antonio.

Antonio: I am worse than you think.

Ken: Now say that again. Really put some feeling in that.

Antonio: I’m worse than you think. Instead of promising you lamp shops and allowing you to assume that you will find the answer to your problems there, I would first of all, find out if you could read at all. I would find out if you were near such a shop, or whether a lamp might be obtained for you in some other way.

Ken: The two men looked at each other sadly for a moment, then each went his way. This is about the teacher-student connection not forming. Now, anybody get anything out of going through this little play together? Okay. Thank you, Sambit, thank you. Antonio.Very kind of you. [Clapping]

The Diamond Sutra: a reading


Ken: So, now, with seven minutes left, we’re going to start into the Diamond Sutra. I’d hoped we’d have a little bit more time, but … This is learning how to read. Okay. So, I’m going to read … I’m using Red Pine’s translation. His English is very good. He avoids translating certain words into English so that he can preserve the play on words that are there in the Sanskrit or the Chinese. We can’t do this in English because the word dharma was originally translated incorrectly. And so now we can’t do it in English because we have two very different meanings for that word.

The other very readable one is Thich Nhat Hanh’s, if you’re able to get that. They’re easy to read and, I haven’t completed the translation from the Tibetan yet, and I probably won’t complete it before the end of this course, but it is on my agenda. And that has some variations which I find quite interesting, but I’m just going to very quickly read the first …

The Diamond Sutra is kind of interesting because it was probably written at the beginning of the common era, maybe as early as 100 BC, probably not later than 200 C.E. or A.D., somewhere in that 300 year range. And what is also interesting, it’s about the same time as we think Nagarjuna was around. But it’s one of the earliest of the Perfection of Wisdom sutras, and it doesn’t mention the word emptiness.

So emptiness wasn’t even in use at this point, nor was the concept of Buddha nature that came several hundred years later. So what we have in the Diamond Sutra is a text which is transitioning from one way of approaching practice to a very different approach, something that matured about 500 years after Buddha lived. And I wasn’t aware of this until I started looking closely into it. So this is a very interesting text from that point of view.

Now, it’s also the first text that was printed, for which we can date the printing sometime in the ninth century. So it’s the first printed text that can be dated. On Chinese woodblocks, the form that the printing took and which was done under, I think, the auspices of the Emperor Wu. One of Emperor Wu’s sons was deeply taken by the Diamond Sutra and divided it into chapters. The chapters aren’t present in the original Sanskrit, and they aren’t present in the Tibetan. And he gave the chapters various names. We aren’t going to go into that too much, but when I picked up the Tibetan, “where are the chapters?’ They aren’t there, there’s just one continuous text. And that was as an aid to help people follow the sutra and understand it more easily. But I’m not going into the names. I’m going to just read the first two chapters because something important happens here. Actually three things.

Thus have I heard: Once the Bhagavan was dwelling near Sravasti at Anathapindada Garden of Jeta forest, together with the full assembly of 1,250 bhikshus and a great many fearless bodhisattvas.

One day before noon, the Bhagavan put on his patched robe and picked up his bowl and entered the capital of Sravasti for offerings. After begging for food in the city and eating his meal of rice, he returned from his daily round in the afternoon, put his robe and bowl away, washed his feet, and sat down on the appointed seat. After crossing his legs and adjusting his body, he turned his awareness to what was before him.

A number of bhikshus then came up to where the Bhagavan was sitting. After touching their heads to his feet, they walked round him to the right three times and sat down to one side.

The Diamond Sutra, Red Pine (translator) p. 6


That’s the first chapter.

On this occasion, the venerable Subhuti was also present in the assembly. Rising from his seat, he uncovered one shoulder and touched his right knee to the ground, pressing his palms together and bowing to the Buddha, he said: “It is rare, Bhagavan, most rare indeed. Sugata, how the Tathagata, the Arhan, the Fully-Enlightened one, blesses fearless bodhisattvas with the best of blessings. And it is rare, Bhagavan, how the Tathagata, the Arhan, the Fully-Enlightened one, entrusts fearless bodhisattvas with the greatest of trusts.

“Even so, Bhagavan, if a noble son or daughter should set forth on the Bodhisattva path, how should they stand? How should they walk, and how should they control their thoughts?

The Buddha told the venerable Subhuti, “Well said, Subhuti. Well said.” So it is, Subhuti. It is as you say. The Tathagata blesses fearless bodhisattvas with the best of blessings, and entrust fearless bodhisattvas for the greatest of trusts. You should therefore truly listen, Subhuti, and consider this well. I shall tell you how those who set forth on the bodhisattva path should stand, how they should walk, and how she how they should control their thoughts.”

The venerable Subhuti answered, “May it be so, Bhagavan,” and gave his full attention.

p. 7


So, earlier this evening I said, part of reading a sutra is paying attention to what happens in you as you read it, or in this case, hear it. So I’m going to read one section again, and I want you to pay attention to what happens in you.

After begging for food in the city and eating his meal of rice. He returned from his daily round in the afternoon, put his robe and bowl away, washed his feet and sat down on the appointed seat. After crossing his legs and adjusting his body, he turned his awareness to what was before him.

p. 6


What happens in you when you hear that?

Student: Yes. I adjusted my body and turned my attention to what was before me. Okay.

Ken: Thank you. You adjusted your body and turned attention to what’s right in front of you. Okay. Yes.

Student: i’m visualizing him. I’m watching him in my mind’s eye.

Ken: There’s a picture there. Okay. How does that picture affect you?

Student: I feel like like I was like, “Okay, dude.”

Ken: [Laughs] Okay, dude, I guess you feel a little blank. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Yes.

Student: I relaxed.

Ken: You relaxed. Okay. Anybody else?

Student: I could relate to him better.

Ken: Why is that? You could relate to him better. Why?

Student: He seems more like a real person.

Ken: Okay, Anybody else?

Student: Yes. I feel comforted. Like he does two activities I really like to do.

Ken: He does what?

Student: Two activities I really like to which is eat rice and wash my feet. It’s comforting.

Ken: He does two activities I really like to do, like eat rice and wash my feet. I got that in the right order. So he does that. And what happens then? Subhuti gets up. Why did Subhuti get up and ask this question?

Student: It could be a very long wait, otherwise

Ken: Yes. Well, that’s actually a very good point. Ask the teacher your questions. Don’t wait. And when you interact with your teacher, bring to him or her your questions, insights or challenges. It’s all you need, but it’s up to you to put those forward. Okay, you can sit around for years waiting him for him or her to speak to your insights, questions or challenges. Or you can put them forward. Now to put them forward means you enter unknown territory. And the teacher, to reply to you, has to move out of what he or she knows. Because you’re you’re a real life person and they have to enter, engage with you. So teacher and student actually both step out of their worlds into an unknown world that they create together. And that is where real learning takes place. And that’s why interaction with the teacher is so important. You’ve seen that happen several times this evening where people have put something forward. I’ve come back with them and they’ve entered into something. And sometimes there’s been a shift. A different kind of understanding has emerged. It’s really, really important.

Now we’re going to close here. We’re a tiny bit over. I want to point out one other possibility. There’s nothing in the sutra which says this, but have you ever watched someone do something plain and ordinary, with such grace and simplicity that it makes your jaw drop? That, to my mind, is what happened here. They’re all sitting around every day. The Buddha goes to Sravasti, begs for alms, comes back. On this one occasion, Subhuti’s sitting there and he watches Buddha do this and the grace and simplicity in his movements. He just goes, “How does he do that?” And so he asked this crazy question: “How does someone who’s entered the bodhisattva path, how do they stand? How do they walk? How do they control their minds?” Now, next week I will have something to say about those three points. But that’s enough for this evening. Two questions before we close. If there are any questions, that is. If not, yes.

Student questions


Student: When you start speaking, you said that you get to the point that you realize there is no control. You don’t control at all. This is someone else’s question of me, and I don’t know how to answer. So the question is then what? What are we going to do?

Ken: So earlier this evening I said “You reach a certain point. And that was when confusion is dissolving and turning into wisdom, right? Where there is no control. And through the path of practice you have less and less control because you’re becoming more and more aware. That was where that came up, right? And so you lose control then. Then what do you do? That’s the question that you were asked, right? What does the sun do?

Student: Shine.

Ken: It shines. What does the rain do?

Student: Rains.

Ken: Right. So when you’re that present in your life. that there is little or no confusion. What do you do? And you can answer this question.

Student: Let’s see what comes up. And then we respond to it.

Ken: You respond to whatever presents itself to you. And you have no choice. Now, on the one hand, that feels terrible. On the other hand, there’s something quite wonderful, almost magical about it. That is what the bodhisattva path is actually about, becoming so clear that all that is left is an ongoing response to the suffering and struggles of the world. Now, not everybody wants to go in that direction, and that’s why it’s very, very important to know why you are practicing. And it isn’t a case of encouraging. I know a lot of teachers say how wonderful it is and, you know, it’s wonderful to do this and things like that. No, this has to come from inside. And the purpose and the function of the teacher is to help the student nurture that possibility. Not everybody wants to go in that direction. And I have students who’ve actually got quite angry with me when they see that is where they’re going. I said, “Okay, you don’t have a use for it. That’s fine.” But for some of us, that ideal, even if it’s a ridiculous ideal, like beings are numberless I vow to free them all. There’s something we find incredibly moving and inspiring in that. So that’s the direction we want to go. And that’s very important. It doesn’t mean it’s the only direction that one can go spiritually. It’s only one direction. Does that help?

Student: Yes.

Dedication prayer


Ken: Very good. All right. Let us turn to these prayers then. And we’ll do the dedication. And the two that follow that.

All Goodness comes from this practice we’ve done.
Let me not hold it just in me.
Let it spread to all that is known
And awaken good throughout the world.

Awakening mind is precious.
May it arise wherever has not arisen.
May it not pay where it has arisen.
May it ever grow and flourish.

When everything is known, there is nothing to understand.
When everything is clear. There is nothing to explain.
When everything is in its place, there is nothing to do.
May the joy of this way touch beings everywhere.

Practice instructions


Ken: From this evening some of you took a few notes. Some of you just listened. Take two or three points that spoke to you. I’m going to be a little arrogant and say, I’m pretty sure each of you felt there were two or three points that spoke to you. At least I hope so. Anybody for whom that wasn’t true? Keep them in mind this week. Keep coming back to them. Don’t try to remember everything. There is way too much. Pick two or three that spoke to you and bring them into your life. And then I’ll see you next week. Okay.

[Interaction with Kati]

I forgot to give you another assignment. Excuse me. If you’re up for it, I strongly recommend that during the course of the six weeks I suggest either taking Thich Nhat Hanh’s or the Red Pine’ translation, but it doesn’t really matter. There are lots of others that you can get on the web. Download them and read it out loud, standing up once a day. And that’s a practice. I probably should have said more about it. I’ll talk more about it next week. But this is a very old practice of reciting sutras. Do not be concerned with understanding it, because the kind of understanding that you’re going to develop of the Diamond Sutra is not an intellectual understanding. So don’t worry about understanding it. Just read it once a day, standing up, out loud. The reason you’re standing up and out loud is so that your body and voice are engaged, and not just your mind. It changes how you take the sutra in. Okay, so that’s an assignment for those of you who wish to do it. Okay.