Building capacity in attention

Ken: This is Sunday, April 10th. Against the Stream.

We’re going to start off with talking a little bit about meditation. A couple of people asked about that, two or three people. Now, the way that I prefer to think about meditation is that, it’s like working out. Whether you run, or go to the gym, or whatever. By exercising the body regularly, you build a number of abilities. You build strength. You build endurance. If you include something like yoga or various other things, you can build flexibility. And you also build resilience.

Now, when you’re working out, you don’t expect any single day to make that much of a difference in your workout. It’s something that happens over a period of time. And, except to avoid injuring yourself, you don’t really care how you feel in any particular day. Some days, you’re just like, doing this, running. Other days, it feels very invigorating. But the effect over time is that you’re stronger, more fit, have more endurance, more resilient, more flexible, and so forth.

Well, one way to think about meditation is it’s doing something comparable for a quality which is a little less tangible than physical fitness. But it’s very important, and I call it the quality of attention. For some of us, our attention is very weak, which means it gets destabilized extremely easily. Other people aren’t able to focus for very long at all, maybe two or three seconds, or something like that. Others, its resilience, and others, its flexibility. Myself, I find it’s all four. I don’t have much attention. I can’t focus for very long; every time I get knocked off, it takes me longer and longer to come back. And it’s really hard to switch from one thing to another. So it’s pretty hopeless. But maybe you’re not like me.

So, what we’re doing in meditation, you can think of it as like building muscles, attention muscles. And it’s remarkably similar because, you know, if you’re building physical muscles, you go running, or you do push ups or pull ups, or lift weights, or whatever, but you do something that’s repetitive. That’s how you become stronger. And it’s not particularly interesting either. You don’t think, oh boy, it’s just so interesting lifting this weight. It’s not how we relate to it. It’s just like [makes sound effect].

Okay, so what we do in meditation, or one of the easiest things is, we meditate using the breath, which is just the coming and going. Your experience of breathing, coming and going of breathing, and you just rest there. Now, it may not seem like this is doing anything. I mean, when you’re exercising, do you like to get into the exercise state? Well, sometimes happens, but it’s not particularly important whether you’re in the exercise state, you’re just exercising.

And by the way, do you work on issues while you exercise? Does it help your exercise? No, it doesn’t help the exercise. Same diff. Okay. It may help you get through the exercise, but it doesn’t help the exercise. So it’s the same thing with meditation. It doesn’t help. And it doesn’t really get you through the meditation because you’re not meditating if you’re working on issues. You follow? Okay. And what do you do about sound when you’re exercising? Is it a big deal? No. Okay. So it’s about the same with meditation.

Now, as I said just before we started meditating, this is the way I like to illustrate meditation. This is experience, the gong symbolizes experience, and in particular the experience of breathing. The striker symbolizes attention. Now, how most people think about meditation is they’re going to concentrate on the breath. And they’re going to stay with that breath. I’m going to hold attention on the breath. Well, that’s like going to work out and you’re going to pick up this weight and just hold it. And it’s good for about a minute or two, and then it starts to get really heavy. Right? It’s one way, but it’s not a very good way. So this whole business of holding, concentrating, etc., etc., and this may be just my own idiosyncrasies, but I just find that it never worked very well.

So that’s why I say, rest in the experience of breathing. And you noticed I used the preposition in, not on. Because if meditation’s about anything, it’s about actually experiencing life. Okay, so here we are, and we’re just sitting. And what’s happening in our life right now? Well we’re breathing, of course, if we aren’t breathing, we’re dead. That’s very simple. We’re not living. So just experience that. And what we find is, as we open to the experience of breathing, we think, oh, that’s just a very simple thing. But it’s really quite amazingly complex and many-faceted.

There’s a story of a Westerner came to Munindra, who’s one of the great 20th century meditation teachers, and he complained about how he was always falling asleep when he meditated. And Munindra said, “What’s your problem?”

“I keep falling asleep when I meditate.”

“Yeah, I know you said that, but what’s your problem?”

“Well, I keep falling asleep when I meditate.”

“Yes, I understand, when you meditate, you fall asleep. But what is your problem?” And the Westerner just went [sigh]. And he got up. And just as he was leaving, Munindra said to him, “By the way, when you fall asleep, when you’re meditating, is there more breath going out of your left nostril or your right nostril?”

And the student looked at him and said, “I don’t know.”

“Ah, now I think I know what your problem is. Sit down and let’s talk.” Because what we’re doing in meditation is developing our ability to experience whatever is going on completely.

Thich Nhat Hanh, who’s also another wonderful meditation teacher, one of my favorite quotes from him is just two lines: “Meditation is the study of what is going on. What is going on is very important.” That’s all. So we sit, and we breathe, and we rest our attention in breath. That’s meditation. It’s not any particular state. Now when that happens, as I said before, the attention falls off. That’s because our lack of stability, and so forth. And basically, concentrating, or trying to hold the attention on there doesn’t work.

I think it was Gunaratana, who is a Sri Lankan monk, teaches on the east coast of Virginia somewhere. He likes to say, “Thoughts are to the mind what sweat is to the body.” That is, when you sit, thoughts are going to come, just as sounds are going to come. And if we say, “I’m just not going to have any thoughts,” that’s like trying to block our experience.

Somebody asked me what my training is. My training is in the Tibetan tradition. It’s in the Mahayana tradition. We’re complete space cadets. We regard everything as being wonderfully open and like the sky. It’s in fact, one of our favorite metaphors. Everything’s like the sky. You see, you can get lost in it very easily. So I want you to explore it like the sky, which is really like saying like space.

What is a thought?

Ken: So I just want to explore this a little bit right here with this context of meditation. So, here we are, and it’s a pretty clear day. But as a Japanese teacher once said, “The floating white cloud does not obstruct the infinite blue sky.” So just because a thought arises, it isn’t the end of the world. Your meditation hasn’t fallen into some abysmal pit. Nobody is going to reprimand you, or chastise you, or admonish you. It’s okay.

But more important, so a thought arises. Now this little tricky. And this really comes from the Tibetan tradition. When a thought arises, has your mind changed at all? A little trick question here. When a thought arises, has your mind changed at all? Since you asked, I’m asking you. Your words will be broadcast to the whole world.

Student: Yes and no.

Ken: Oh, that’s a horribly Buddhist answer.

Student: Yes, it has changed because your mind is always changing. And no, because since your mind is always changing, it’s continually changing that sort of like not changing.

Ken: That’s the constant. Yeah. Well okay. You don’t get a gold star for that one. Okay. You’re you’re on the hook now. So a thought arises. I have a little question for you. What actually changes?

Student: That …

Ken: This second. Don’t think about it. I want you to look. Thought arises. What changes? Look and tell me what changes.

Student: The thought.

Ken: Oh, okay. We have to go a little deeper then. What is a thought?

Student: A thought is really—

Ken: Look. There’s a very important quotation from John Audubon. Do you know who John Audubon is? John Audubon was an ornithologist in the 19th century, made these beautiful paintings of birds, and wrote these fantastic bird books. Very famous if you’re into bird watching, which I’m not. But he’s the person who gave rise to the Audubon Society. So, what he says is, “When the bird and the book don’t agree, believe the bird.”

Student: Sure.

Ken: Yeah. Okay. So, this is what you got to do right now. So, what is a thought? Now, I don’t want you to tell me, give me some intellectual description. I want you to look at a thought, and tell me what it is. I don’t want you tell me what the thought is about.

Student: I can’t tell you what a thought is.

Ken: What?

Student: I can’t tell you what a thought is.

Ken: Why not?

Student: Because that would just be a description of a thought.

Ken: That’s a gong, you see. A gong is metal. So what’s a thought?

Student: A thought is a thought.

Ken: This is very unsatisfactory. Are you telling me that the thought is an irreducible element of our experience?

Student: I think so.

Ken: Okay. You’re going to make me work. What is a thought made of?

Student: I don’t know.

Ken: I appreciate your honesty. Thank you. Okay. I’m going to suggest something. A thought is made of nothing. What’s a wave?

Student: Momentum?

Ken: Well, movement is closer. I’ve got a background in math and physics, so don’t mess with me there. But, it’s more movement than momentum. But that’s very good. That’s very good. So okay. So, what’s a thought?

Student: The wave of the mind.

Ken: Oh, you took the hint. He took the bait. I have him hooked now. Okay, What moves?

Student: The mind, I guess.

Ken: Yeah, but when the water’s moving, there’s a wave on water. I could see the water going up and down. What moves in the mind?

Student: I don’t know.

Ken: Okay, so how would you like to hang out in that I don’t know.

Student: Sure.

Ken: Okay. What happens when you do that?

Student: Nothing.

Ken: No, just try it for a moment. Everybody can do this. You don’t have to leave it all to him. What happens? You know, you look at thought. What is a thought? I don’t know. Look at mind. What moves? I don’t know. What happens?

Student: The universe continues to happen.

Ken: What happens in you?

Student: I continued to happen.

Ken: Oh, I don’t think so. I disagree with that. Try it again.

Student: [Pause] You like that better?

Ken: Well. What happened? Ah. How would you describe that? That was very good. You know, opening your eyes wide like that. So we’ll allow you a few words. We’ll allow you four or five words here. Everything stopped, right? Stopped and didn’t stop.

Student: Yeah. That’s better. Stopped and didn’t stop.

Ken: Yeah. How was that for you?

Student: It’s fine.

Ken: That’s the essence of meditation. That’s the essence of practice. So, going back, this comes to where your sound comes in. Could you hand her the microphone, please? It’s her turn. What is sound?

Student: Particles vibrating through space.

Ken: From a physics point of view, that is correct. From an experiential point of view, what is sound?

Student: Experience.

Ken: What experiences the sound?

Student: I don’t know.

Ken: Oh, okay. Well, they’re obliging us right now—the sound outside. Okay. So, just sit right there, looking at what experiences the sound and not knowing what that is. Tell me what happens.

Student: Ah. I just watched the interpretation of the sound as attached to a guy on a skateboard on the sidewalk.

Ken: Ah, so you started thinking. Before that.

Student: I don’t know how to describe that.

Ken: But you experienced something? Yeah. So I’m going to push you again. I pushed him, so I have to be fair here. I can’t treat men differently from women. You got four or five words.

Student: Sensation happened.

Ken: Yeah, but you have a different quality there. How would you describe that? It’s not like you are ordinarily in life, is it?

Student: Pardon?

Ken: It’s not like you are ordinarily in life, is it?

Student: I’m not sure I understand the question.

Ken: What’s it like when you rest in I don’t know what experiences.

Student: It’s free.

Ken: Whoa. That’s pretty good. What’s it free from? I’m really mean today.

Student: It’s free from the story of the guy in the skateboard on the sidewalk.

Ken: Yeah. That’s right.

Thoughts and thinking

Ken: So, one of the important things that I’m messing around with here is the distinction between thinking and thoughts. When we are thinking, we are wrapped up in thoughts. We’re going round and round and round. And when that is happening, our experience of life is duller. It’s more distant. It’s a little confused. But when we just rest in our experience, using any of the methods which I was just demonstrating with both of these people, then the mind is clearer or the way we experience things is clearer. It’s more vivid, it’s more open. This gentleman went [audible exhale] to convey it. You said it was free, which is a very big word.

And thoughts can arise there, and they’re not particularly a problem. Why? Because one isn’t thinking. It’s just, thoughts are happening, and that’s different. Can you feel that difference?

Student: No.

Ken: No. Ah, well, I appreciate those honest people, even though they make me work. Okay. So, how long you been practicing?

Student: In this lifetime?

Ken: Yeah. This lifetime. I don’t know the other ones, I hear rumors about, but I haven’t been there.

Student: I don’t know what you mean by practicing.

Ken: How long have you been practicing meditation? One day, five days, three years?

Student: What do you mean by practicing?

Ken: Well, when they asked if people were new to meditation, you didn’t hold your hand up. So, presumably you’ve had some exposure to it before?

Student: I didn’t know how to respond to that. That’s a hard question.

Ken: Why is that a hard question for you?

Student: Because, it depends on so many things. It depends on what you mean by practicing meditation. It seems new all the time.

Ken: Well, this is your first time to Against the Stream.

Student: No.

Ken: Oh, okay. How long have you been coming to Against the Stream?

Student: I don’t know.

Ken: Approximately.

Student: A year, less.

Ken: All right. Less than a year. Do you practice meditation on your own?

Student: What do you mean by that?

Ken: Do you sit down and rest like we did for this first half hour?

Student: Sure. Sometimes.

Ken: Okay. Regularly?

Student: What do you mean by that?

Ken: Every day.

Student: I go to the bathroom every day.

Ken: I know. I eat food every day. I also practice every day. Do you?

Student: I don’t know how to answer that exactly.

Ken: Do you have a set time that you say, “I’m going to sit down and just rest.”

Student: No.

Ken: Okay. Thank you. All right. The reason I need to know this is it helps me to be able to respond to you.

Student: I don’t have a set time.

Ken: Okay, to respond to you, because you were saying that, when I said, “There’s a difference between having thoughts and thinking,” you said that didn’t make any sense to you. Okay. Now I know where we are. Now I can respond to you, but I needed that information.

Student: Okay, but I don’t understand exactly why.

Ken: Why? Because, well, I’m going to quote Gunaratana again.

When you begin meditation, you come sooner or later to the startling realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a madhouse on wheels, running pell-mell down a hill, utterly crazy and out of control. No problem. You are not crazier than you were yesterday. It’s always been like this and you’ve just noticed for the first time.

Henepola Gunaratana

Now, this is why we practice, is to learn that we’re actually crazy. It gets worse. A Sufi teacher was approached by a number of villagers and they said, “We’d like to study with you.”

He looked at them and said, “Are you willing to practice hard and forgo ease?”

They said, “Yes.”

“Are you willing to be humble and forego pride?”

They said, “Yes.”

“And are you willing to let go of what you think you know? To open to something new.”

“Yes.”

“Oh, said the teacher, “very well. Next week, on Wednesday evening, I’ll be meeting with a group of students who have studied with me for three years. You should come and meet them.” So the next Wednesday, this group of villagers came into the hall and there were a group of about the same size of people who apparently had been studying with the Sufi teacher for three years. And he looked at the older students. And he said to them, “How many of you would prefer to take things easy than practice hard?” And they all stood up. “How many of you are proud and not humble?” And they all stood up. “And, how many of you want to hold on to what you think you know and not open to what is new?” And they all stood up.

So he turned to the new people and said, “So you see, the results of studying with me are that you’re going to be worse off than you are now.

Creating the conditions for attention to grow

Ken: Now, when we practice meditation, and we do so on a regular basis. That is, we sit. We have a time of day that we actually sit and do this. Because we’re doing it again and again, we begin to notice things that that we didn’t notice before. And one of the first things we notice is what Gunaratana says, that we cannot control our thinking. And it’s just like all over the place without any rhyme or reason.

I remember when I was relatively new to Los Angeles there were two psychologists. And at that time, we did half an hour of meditation with a little bit of break and then another half hour of meditation. And then the next week, only one of the psychologists came. And I said, “What happened to your friend?” He said “Those two half-hour sessions were the longest 24 hours of his life. It was absolute hell for him. He didn’t want to come back.” And for some people, it’s like that, it’s very, very difficult. It was for me. I couldn’t sit for more than a minute at the beginning, because it was just so difficult just to be in all of that craziness. Other people, it’s much easier. They just sit and it’s fine. And then, as we sit, we make a little bit of effort just to come back to the breath. Come back to the experience of breathing. And it may be a day, it may be a week, it may be a month of this. But sooner or later, if you do this on a regular basis, then we see, “Oh, there’s a difference between being lost in thinking, and resting in the breath, with an occasional thought popping up.” We go, “Wow. I didn’t even know that was possible.”

Student: So what is that difference?

Ken: Well, you’ve heard two descriptions of it already today. The gentleman behind you went like this … And this lady here said “free.” That’s the difference. It’s open and free. It’s not something you can make happen. What we can do—and this goes back to your question right at the beginning—what we can do is create the conditions so that it can happen. And that is what we’re doing in meditation. We’re creating the conditions in which attention can grow. And that’s why I don’t worry about too much the meditative state. It’s like carrots getting into the growing state. When we sit down to meditate and we do it in this way, then attention naturally grows. And that’s why I use the analogy of working out. But if you think of trying to get into a certain state, then you just create a struggle for yourself. So does this make sense to you? Not at all?

Student: No.

Ken: Well, it’s always good to fail now and then. Okay.

Student: I’m just trying to ask straight out, what’s the difference between thoughts and thinking?

Ken: It’s something you can experience. And I’ve described it as, when we’re thinking, there is a whole process going on of going from one thought to another, blah blah, blah, blah, blah blah, blah, blah. And we are generally, when that is going on, less aware of our surroundings. And as we’re able to appreciate over time, it’s actually a duller state of mind. We don’t experience things as vividly. And when the mind is just resting, then sometimes thoughts will just pop up. So, you could say it’s a matter of frequency, but it’s a little bit more than a matter of frequency. When thoughts just pop up, we aren’t actually engaging them. When we’re thinking, we’re engaging them. And that’s the big difference. Yes.

Don’t engage the thought

Student: This is kind of interesting that you’re bringing this up, because maybe because I’ve been meditating more, it’s like kind of a phenomenon that’s occurred in this past week where it’s almost like a symbiotic relationship. It’s like the thought doesn’t detract from the experience of breathing, and then the breathing doesn’t detract from the thought. It’s like they’re very compatible.

Ken: Yes. But now you are at a very dangerous point. And I took the wrong path here for a very long time. We think we can engage the thought without affecting the meditation. Bad move. We have to be very careful here because it’s exactly as you describe. You’re sitting and it’s as if something has opened up, right? There’s just more space. Would that be fair? Okay. And thought, thought, thought. This is, in terms of my training of the nine stages of meditation, this is actually the third stage of meditation.

And, as I think I talked about last time I was here, in the beginning when we meditate, it’s like going for a picnic with elephants. When we meditate for a little bit longer, then it’s like going for a picnic with a with a bunch of dogs. And then as we meditate more, it’s like going for a picnic with ants. But we can get sucked into this very, very easily because we have such a propensity for it. So, as you’re sitting, and resting in the experience of breathing, and thought pops up it’s exactly as you say. The thought pops up. It doesn’t disturb the breath. The thought’s there, the breath’s there. You can experience the whole thing. Okay, what I recommend that you do is whenever that happens, rest in the experience, the physical experience of breathing. Don’t push the thought away. You won’t need to. Just rest in the physical experience of breathing.

By resting in the physical experience of breathing, you reduce the tendency to engage the thought, which puts you into thinking. You follow? And so you have more likely the experience of the thought coming and going, coming and going. There’s no problem with that. It’s the engagement of the thinking process that becomes problematic. And so you just rest there. You come back to your body, just the sensations of the body breathing, chest expanding, flowing through the nostrils, all of that stuff. And then the thoughts come and go. And as you keep doing this, as you keep that resting quality, then you’ll find that there is a quality, you’ll actually have the experience of resting. And there’ll be a sense of attention in that. And then you can start resting in the experience of attention. And that’s the next steps for you in your practice.

Student: Okay.

Ken: This makes sense to you?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Follow up questions?

Student: Not right now.

Ken: Okay. Please.

Student: So are you making a distinction between a thought coming up and not playing with it? And then you’re defining thinking as a thought comes up and you play with it.

Ken: That’s very well said. Thank you. Do you want to go anywhere with that?

Student: I can’t think of anything else to say.

Ken: Well, don’t play with thoughts. Dangerous. Not when you’re meditating, anyway.

Meditation and creativity are different practices

Ken: Now, I have to be careful here. How many of you have read Carlos Castaneda? Oh, a lot of people. Okay. He makes a distinction between stalking and dreaming. Do you remember that? No. Okay. In stalking, you’re developing capabilities. And that’s what I’m talking about in terms of meditation here. But there’s a completely different kind of practice which he calls dreaming, which many people do quite naturally. And that’s where they just sit down and they don’t try to control their mind at all. Whatever comes up, just go with it. And for many people this is the source of creativity, of insight, all kinds of things.

And people say, “That’s what I want to do when I meditate.” Okay, it’s a different practice. Using the analogy of physical fitness, it’s one thing to work out. It’s another thing to play our favorite sport, whether it’s tennis, or football, or basketball, or what have you, or ski, or whatever. Now, the work we’ve done in working out, because our body’s really fit and strong and resilient and flexible, it enables us to play the sport better. We have more fun. We can do it because there’s more capability in the body. And that’s basically the relationship between these two kinds of things.

But several people have said to me, “I don’t want to just sit all the time and just be with the breath, because ideas come to me, etc.” And I say, that’s fine. Set up another time of day where you practice dreaming. But don’t confuse, because if you try to practice dreaming you’ll never develop the resilience, the strength, endurance in the attention. And that’s what a lot of people do. They just go all over the place. But so both of these are helpful. But for most most of us, it’s in that building up the quality of attention that is probably the more important in the beginning. Okay? Right. There’s a question over here.

Including the whole of experience

Student: Well, when I try to bring attention to my life—not just the practice, but just my everyday life— some of the time I fall back into being aware of the breath like I do in my practice. Is that something that’s a part of that, or that you want to do, or not?

Ken: When you say you bring attention to your life, just give me an example of the kind of thing that you consider.

Student: Like walking down the sidewalk and seeing the leaves on the trees rustle and the birds flying around, and setting, and just being more aware of the present, and what’s around me as opposed to what’s going…

Ken: All the thoughts.

Student: All the thoughts. Yeah.

Ken: Okay. And then you find yourself as you do that experiencing the breathing too.

Student: Sometimes I do. Yes.

Ken: Yeah, you see, it’s part of what’s going on. It’s not just the birds and the trees. There’s also the body breathing and walking and things like that, and you’re just opening to the whole experience. So it’s not really falling back, if you see what I mean. It’s including more. Can you experience the breathing and the birds in the sky and the trees?

Student: Yes I can.

Ken: Yeah. This is a really good thing to do. Just experience it all. In fact, that’s actually how we work with meditation. I mean, I’ve said rest in the experience of breathing, right? Okay. Now for us, what is the experience of breathing? Well, it’s actually everything that we experience, you know, the sun, and the space, and all the different colors, and people in this room, and the sounds outside. That’s all part of the experience of breathing, isn’t it?

When we’re really in the experience of breathing, we’re going to experience all of that. So one can think that, in meditation what we’re doing is we’re starting with the actual sensations of breath in the body. And as we rest more completely in that, we include more, and more, and more. We intentionally include everything. And now you’re talking about going outside, and walking, and things like that. You think, oh, this is a wonderful place. And it’s so blue, and beautiful view, and things like that, and just become quiet in it as you walk. And then you become aware of the rhythm of your body walking and breathing. So you’re coming from all of that stuff and including everything in. That’s fine.

Student: Okay.

Ken: But that is what your life is. It’s all of that. So I don’t see any problem there.

Student: Okay, good. I’m glad I’m on the right track.

Ken: Right. We have time for a couple more questions. I think I covered everybody’s. Did I cover yours? Okay. What was yours Marie?

Working with survival and identity

Marie: Let’s see if I can frame it. Emotional reactions you talked about, you know, generally related to getting emotional needs met, maintaining identity, or survival.

The survival one is one that I’ve been working with lately. And I just want to talk about my understanding. And maybe you can fill in some if I have any gaps in my understanding. So working with survival at the level of the body, like it’s a very primal response, like, death is imminent. Your body starts secreting all these chemicals. Your body tenses up, and it’s hard to practice. I find when I’m in that state, it’s really hard to practice. But the practice is just staying with your body and cultivating the positive chemicals in your—

Ken: No, no, no, no, no. This will just get you really messed up if you start thinking this way. You’ll end up taking drugs. Trying to get the right state of mind with all the chemicals. No, no. How many of you have seen the movie Of Gods and Men? Oh, good. It’s compulsory. You have to see it. This is not negotiable. I’m sorry. It’s still playing in town. Have you seen it yet?

Marie: No.

Ken: Oh. Why not?

Marie: Sacramento. They don’t have good movies in Sacramento.

Ken: You don’t have to drive back to Sacramento immediately. Go and see it today. It’s playing here. Of Gods and Men. It’s totally relevant to your question. It’s really relevant to your question. It’s a movie made about an incident in the mid-90s. Algeria. A Cistercian monastery, about seven or eight monks, have had this monastery in the middle of Algeria, in the Atlas Mountains for a century. And, the movie is about what they do as the Algerian equivalent of the Taliban starts to exert pressure and influence in the region. It is, for me anyway, the most accurate and moving portrayal of what a life of faith actually means.

Now, to your question, Marie. We’re animals. We are programmed biologically, genetically to live. The body does not die easily. Because that’s what the body is for: it’s for living. And so this survival instinct is very, very deep in us. And even when we are threatened in a way that doesn’t threaten us physically, but threatens our identity, and all of that stuff, we still react exactly the same way. How many of you have been fired from your job at some point in your life? What’s that like? It’s a threat to our survival. It’s not a physical threat. Nobody’s pointing a gun at our head, but it’s like, ah, you know. Sometimes we’re really relieved because we’re away from a bad boss, or something like that. But most of the time it’s like, “Oh.”

And how many of you have been embarrassed publicly at some point? Okay, so that’s another thing. It’s a threat to our identity. We react the same way. Okay? Because we associate our identity, our means of livelihood in the same way that we relate to our physical survival. Okay. Now, one of the really problematic words in Buddhist English is the word natural. Because we hear about natural awareness. You’ve heard this term?

Marie: Oh, yes. George Draffan has a site.

Ken: Yeah. Yes he does. I’ll have to take this up with him. Okay. There’s nothing natural about the awareness that we’re cultivating in this. Because it goes completely against all our biological and cultural and family conditioning. It’s not how we were brought up to be at all. I heard Al Gore once say two cavemen are walking along and they hear a noise. And one rests in natural awareness and the other says, “I’m out of here.” Whose genes get to survive? [Laughter]

It’s completely unnatural. However, as we’ve heard from a couple of people here, through our practice, we can discover a way of experiencing life, which is free and open. There’s no struggle. And some of us value that so highly that we’re willing to put in a great deal of effort so that we can actually form a relationship with this “natural awareness.” And the reason we call it natural awareness is because when we discover that possibility, it just feels so natural. Would you agree? Yeah. Yeah, that’s why we call it natural awareness. It’s not natural. It just feels natural. We have to distinguish between how things are and how we experience them, you see.

So, what you’re describing here is when those survival urges come up, even when there’s no actual, no physical threat, what do you do? Well, just rest in the experience. You don’t try to balance them out or anything like that. That’s what’s coming up. And, one of the situations I was describing earlier, where I was having difficulty. One of them was very definitely a threat to who I think I am. There’s nothing physical about it. It wasn’t particularly a threat financially or anything like that. It was very much a threat to who I think I am. Well, who I think I am is simply a story. Isn’t it?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Yeah. I mean, I may think I’m something, but everybody else thinks I’m something else. So, I get completely caught up in the story. I mean, I’m actually prepared to go to war to hold on to this story. I will wreak havoc and destruction on anybody who even suggests that the story isn’t true. And this just creates misery for myself and for a lot of other people. So one of the things that we’re doing in meditation is developing a sufficient capacity of attention. That is the strength, the endurance, the flexibility and the resilience that we could actually experience not having an identity for a fraction of a second or two. That’s freedom. This makes sense to you?

Marie: Yeah, yeah.

Ken: I mean, this poor gentleman that was so hard on me. You know, I ask him this question. He say, “I don’t know.” It was really good what he was doing there. Why? Because he wasn’t holding on to any kind of identity. He wasn’t trying to impress me or hold on or things. It’s just like, I don’t know. Things are really open at that point, really open. So how are you doing right now? You know what the correct answer is?

Marie: Reflecting.

Ken: The correct answer is, “I don’t know.” It’s really hard to go there, isn’t it?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Thank you. And on that note, we’ll close. Let’s just sit for a moment.

Goodness comes from this work we have done.
Let me not hold it just in me.
Let it spread to all that is known.
And awaken good throughout the world.