In the Buddhist tradition, a sutra refers to the meeting of the teacher’s mind and the student’s mind. This is the seventh of 35 sutra sessions held in Los Angeles. In these Ken converses informally with students about life and practice.

Ken: And I sympathize because I’ve had a terrible time with physical posture and meditation. Is it usually like this for you?

Student: I usually sit at the chairs.

Ken: And you chose—

Student: Today, well, I don’t know. I thought I could hang today.

Ken: Well, I admire your effort. But, it’s just much easier if the body’s somewhat comfortable. Yeah. I spent years, and years, and years trying to sit in that kind of position, and my body just isn’t made for it. I spent seven years in retreat trying to do it, so you can imagine what that was like. Find a way to sit relatively comfortable. And I think you’ll have a much better experience and also make much better progress in your meditation.

Student: Well, I think I could have gotten a little more comfortable, but I’m always so worried about disrupting.

Ken: Oh, they can handle it.

Student: I kind of wanted to get another pad and get a little more elevated.

Ken: Yeah, that would have been a very good idea. And, if you get up quietly, go and get something, it’s not going to be the end of the world, I can assure you.

Student: I just feel so amplified. Like anytime I just swallow, I’m like, “God, everybody heard that,” and I’m breaking their concentration.

Ken: You know, there’s only one person who actually hears this. It’s you.

Student: Sorry.

Ken: No, no. That’s fine. But, take the time, get settled. And this applies to everybody, not just you. Sit in a way that your body can sit straight in attention but is not actually strained. And it can take time for the body to adjust to meditating, that takes place over a period of weeks or months. But that’s very important, so I just wanted to bring that out. Your name?

Rick: My name is Rick.

Ken: Rick, you’re a very experienced meditator, aren’t you?

Rick: On and off. But yes, a long time.

Ken: Yes. Zen?

Rick: No. More Vipassana.

Ken: Vipassana. Okay. You sit very easily, don’t you?

Rick: It’s the one way my body stretches that I can do.

Ken: Yes. It makes a big problem for your practice, doesn’t it?

Rick: Falling asleep?

Ken: Yes.

Rick: That’s right.

Ken: So this is the other extreme. And I thought it was just so wonderful. I had these two people right in front of me. Because this is the other side of the coin. Here we have Becky, who’s just struggling all over the place trying to sit still in some kind of comfort. And her mind is all over the place and saying, “Oh, I’m fed up with this meditation,” because I saw you do that at one point. And you’re going, “Oh, yes.” Yeah. When I was in the three-year retreat, we had tables in front of us where we have our books for studying and for the various meditations we were doing. And, we would sit, and when we fell asleep, we’d go down and whack, and that would wake us up.

My own teacher, when he was in the three-year retreat in Tibet, he was in his teens. He went into the three-year retreat when he was 16 years old, I think. And he had a hard time staying awake. What he would do was to meditate on his windowsill. And every time he fell asleep, he’d fall down. And other people have tried putting a cup of water on their head or a lighted butter lamp. That’s worse, because then the hot oil burns you. So people really try.

What I suggest for you—does anybody else have trouble falling asleep meditating? Okay, so there’s a few other people here, and it’s much more of a problem if you sit easily than if you’re if your body’s not comfortable, you don’t fall asleep when you’re not comfortable—very short periods of meditation. And I want to put the emphasis on very short. So what does this look like? One breath meditation, that’s about as short as you can get, right? And then you stop. And you check. “Oh, am I still sitting upright? Have I gone to sleep? No. Okay. That’s good. Let’s do another session of meditation.” [Pause] And stop. “Okay, so far, so good.” And you do that. And you may think I’m completely nuts here, but you actually do it this way so that you have the experience of being completely awake and in attention for that one breath. And you do that 10, 15, 20, 30, 50 times. It’s up to you. But do it more rather than less. This can also help you.

Then, when you really feel that you can do one breath, you do two breaths. And you stop. You don’t have to get up or anything. You just stop, look around, refresh your body. And then you do two breaths again. And you gradually build up. And the point here is you never give yourself a chance to fall asleep. Because, when we do that repeatedly in our meditation, what we’re actually practicing is not meditating, we’re practicing being dull. And that is just as problematic as being carried away by thought; it’s the other side of the coin. But we actually have to practice this.

I was hearing about this young NBA basketball player, can’t remember his name, plays for the Oklahoma Buckeyes, is it? He’s one of the top draft picks, but he’s playing at the bottom of the league, because that’s how it works. But he’s working really hard. This is his rookie year. And after practice, the coach came in and he saw this guy shooting hoops. And he’d be standing on one place on the floor and he’d be shooting hoops. And he would just shoot from that one position until he could sink everyone. And then he would move six inches to the right and do the same thing. And what he was doing was making sure that his body knew how to shoot from every conceivable point on the floor. He was really working at his game, and he’s already a really, really good basketball player. Okay.

That’s what it takes. If you want to practice meditation, it isn’t just sitting down and having a nice thing like that. It’s actually practicing attention. So, we practice it. And it’s not enough simply to put in the time. Putting in the time is very important, but in addition to putting in the time, we have to be getting the feedback. Now for the basketball player, it’s very easy to get feedback. Did the ball go in the hoop or not? Very easy. Meditation, it’s a little more difficult getting the feedback. And that’s why we have to do it very, very short. So we can say, “Okay, yes I was there,” and then we do it again. Now people think, why would I do this? So that’s my question for you. Why would you do this?

Student: I don’t know all of a sudden. [Laughter]

Ken: Well, let’s pursue that a little bit. You game?

Student: Why would I practice in the first place?

Ken: Why would you practice in the first place? And then, if we get an answer to that question, then we can take it a step further if you wish.

Student: My awareness is scattered, and I have trouble experiencing feelings, and I wish to enhance that ability.

Ken: Does anybody share this? Nobody? You’re all alone here? Let’s have a show of hands if anybody can relate to anything he’s saying. You’ve got a few people. You’re not all alone. Keep going. You’re speaking for everybody. Okay, so your attention is scattered, and you have trouble feeling things, and you would like to enhance your ability to feel.

Student: Yes. I tend to run away from uncomfortable feelings.

Ken: Mmm. How many people here run away from uncomfortable feelings? Okay. How is that working for you?

Student: It’s generally a stalemate. Things haven’t gotten any better or worse for a number of years. I hate to even use those, better or worse, but there does seem to be something lacking in the progress area.

Ken: Okay, well, how would you like to be?

Student: Superman. Be able to not be afraid of new situations and be able to just feel them right through.

Ken: Yeah. That’s so interesting that you say that, because I’m working on a text. I’m working on a ceremony, a refuge ceremony right now. And I almost said exactly the same thing in the refuge ceremony, that the point of practice is to be able to meet whatever arises and not avoid anything ever again. Similar?

Student: Oh, absolutely.

Ken: Yeah. Okay. So, I’m going to give you another tool for practice. And you can put down the mic because I’m going to give this to everybody. Okay. How many of you would like to be able to experience what arises in you more completely, without getting completely freaked out in the process? Okay. Let’s do a meditation. I think I’ve done this here before, and we’re just going to jump straight into the deep end. Now it doesn’t have to be really, really deep. You don’t have to have giant squid in the bottom of the pool or anything like that. But what I want you to do is to take something from your life. Maybe it’s something you’ve got coming tomorrow when you go back to work. Maybe it’s something that happened over the holidays. But something that was a bit of a problem for you, a real problem. Maybe it’s something you felt inside you. Maybe it was an interaction with somebody else. But, I want you to take something that you ran away from, okay? You know, figuratively or literally. So, has everybody got something they can use? Does anybody have a shortage? You don’t have a problem?

Student: Nothing’s coming up.

Ken: May I give you one? How do you feel about dying? Are you okay with that?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Yeah, but, so think about it now. Are you okay with that? You’re okay with dying right now?

Student: No, I don’t want that.

Ken: Okay, there you are. Not there yet. So that’s the one you can use. I have a big bag of these. [Laughter] Anybody else need one? Okay. So just think of that situation, let’s use the term situation, it covers everything. And as you think of that situation say to yourself, “Breathing in, I experience this situation. Breathing out, I experienced the situation.” So let’s just do that for two or three moments together. [Pause] Okay, let’s stop here. So, “Breathing in, I experience this situation. Breathing out, I experience this situation.” What happened? Anybody. Yes.

Student: It gets you a little trembly or a little stressful. It got me.

Ken: It sounds like you moved into a more intimate relationship with the situation. Would that be accurate?

Student: Sure.

Ken: And you felt stuff in your body?

Student: Yeah.

Ken: And emotions?

Student: It’s really hard to pinpoint the emotions when you’re looking at it directly because you’re just experiencing it. I find it’s interesting how your body reacts. Like twitch a little bit.

Ken: So, you were very clear about how the body was reacting. Okay. Anybody else? Yes.

Student: The awareness of the one thing led to awareness of something else that was problematic. And that led to something else. But it wasn’t spiraling out.

Ken: Just one thing after another. So it was a whole train there. Okay. Very good. Okay. One more person. What happened when you did this? No takers? Yes.

Student: I started just daydreaming about a peripheral neutral.

Ken: You’re very good at running away. I should study with you. Okay. So, now, here we have three different things going on. We’re going to do this again. We’re going to spend a little more time with it. “Breathing in, I experience the situation. Breathing out, I experience the situation.” Now you’re not trying to change the situation, or do anything about it, but just experience it. And, one person starts daydreaming. Well, when you start daydreaming, you’re not practicing. Now there’s nothing you can do about the daydream. As long as you’re in the daydream, you’re in another world.

But the daydream doesn’t last forever. Usually lasts for only a few seconds. And there’s this moment of recognition like, “Oh, I’m daydreaming.” What you do at that moment is the most important thing in practice. At that moment when you say, “Oh,” you come back to your practice, or you go on with the daydreaming. Those are the two options. If you go back to the daydream, you’re not practicing. If you come back to the practice, you are. That’s it. And, so, what practice consists of is making that choice each time. “I come back. I come back. I come back.”

Now, we’re working with an uncomfortable situation. So, this requires that you actually have the intention, and are willing, to experience that discomfort. And the reason most of us are willing to do this is because we know that avoiding the discomfort creates even more discomfort later. So we come back. And, at least we’re going to explore experiencing the discomfort right now. So, that’s what we do in this case.

And then the second gentleman says, “Oh, that leads to this problem, which leads to this problem, which leads to this problem.” And suddenly you’re seeing this whole situation in a very different light, right? Now, that can be bring us a lot of understanding and insight, and that may very well be useful. But it’s a more subtle way of actually avoiding things. So, what I would like you to experiment with is, “Oh, okay, there’s that situation. And there’s that one.” And rather than keep following them, if you notice that that’s happening, just say, “What am I experiencing in my body when I open to this situation or open to all of these situations? What do I experience in my body?” I’d like you to explore that. That okay? You have a follow up question here?

Student: Yeah. So basically, I think there’s a realization sometimes that the problem isn’t really, there’s not an intensity to it, but the intensity is coming from somewhere else.

Ken: Okay. So you go to where the intensity is, and then go to the body. Okay? But what’s very important is you end up in the body. Okay?

And then we have the third comment. This person is actually feeling the physical reactions associated with the situation. That was your experience, right? Okay. Because, now we’re going to introduce the second step. The first step is “Breathing in I experience the situation. Breathing out I experience the situation.” The second step, which evolves quite naturally out to the first one, is, “Breathing in, I experience my reactions to the situation. Breathing out, I experience my reactions to the situation.” Now, our reactions may be daydreaming. It may be following a sequence. It may be physical reactions. For other people, there will be a whole bunch of emotional reactions.

What I found here is, if we’re going to work with this in the way that is most fruitful, the best place to start is in the body. So we’re going to do this again. I want you to take the same situation that you worked with. We’ll do it a little bit longer. Last time we only did three breaths. We’ll take it up to five or eight. And what I want you to pay attention to is how your body reacts. What happens in your body when you allow yourself to open to the situation? Any questions before we try this? You game for this? Okay. So let’s do this together.

So again, sit quietly, relaxed and comfortably in your body. Let the breath settle. Call the situation to mind, and say to yourself, “Breathing in, I experience this situation. Breathing out, I experience this situation.” [Pause] Now, “Breathing in, I experience how my body reacts in this situation. Breathing out, I experience how my body reacts.” Now, of course, this won’t be a full blown reaction. It’ll be an echo. There will be physical sensations. So, just experience those. [Pause]

As you are able to be aware of, and rest in, the physical reactions, you may also become aware of emotions. You may not be able to name them, just certain feelings. And so, “Breathing in, I experience emotional reactions in this situation. Breathing out, I experience emotional reactions.” They may be desire, anger, guilt, pride, fear, jealousy, maybe love, joy, other things, even positive emotions. There may be a bunch of them. Don’t try to sort them out, just experience whatever’s there.

Stay rooted in your body, so you’re aware of the physical sensations and the emotional sensations. [Pause] As you’re aware of the physical sensations and the emotional sensations, you’re also, no doubt, aware of all of the stories you have about the situation. Why you’re misunderstood. Or, it wasn’t fair. Or, how could someone do that? Or, why was I so stupid? Or, whatever, all these different stories. It’s very easy to get lost in the stories, but if you stay present in your body with your physical sensations, you’ll find that you can be aware of the stories and not be lost in them. So try that for a short period of time. “Breathing in I experience the stories here. Breathing out, I experience the stories.” [Pause] Okay, so what was this like? Anybody? Yes. Behind you.

Student: I was able to go from, like, twitching, to understanding that it was, like a constriction in my throat, and, then it would also affect my breathing, which was, interesting to realize.

Ken: Okay. And were you then able to be more in the experience?

Student: I was able to release the experience. I felt like there was, in terms of the emotion, it was like a helplessness. And so I was able to touch that. And that was relieved, definitely. I was becoming more aware of the physical sensation. The breathing was really hard to control. I couldn’t really do much about that. In terms of my throat being constricted, and this is more of a medical question, would that be like your like thyroid, or something, that regulates you? Okay, that’s a medical question.

Ken: Well, it may be a medical question. It may be an emotional question, because when something difficult happens, what happens? Our throat tightens up, you know, and we find it very difficult to speak. And there’s nothing wrong with our thyroid. So, I wouldn’t jump to the medical quite so quickly. There’s maybe some emotional material that you haven’t touched yet connected with this situation. And so it shows up in your throat. Show up anywhere, for you, it may be the throat.

Student: I had a real hard time breathing too. I just feel like it was tightening up.

Ken: So were you working with the situation where there was some fear or discomfort?

Student: It was fear. Yeah.

Ken: Right. So this suggests to me that you’re experiencing how fear manifests in your body—throat tightens up. So, you just breathe very gently there. I need to add one more piece here. We’re working with difficult emotions because that’s usually what we run away from, right? One way to regard these difficult emotions is that they’re like difficult children. Okay?

Now, when a child is being difficult, and I’m thinking really of an infant. Okay. You can’t just say, “Be quiet!” Or, “Relax!” Or, “Cool it. Or, “Chill,” or whatever, because it doesn’t work. All you can do when a child is difficult is hold it tenderly in your attention, in your hands. You hold it very tenderly. And if you hold it too tight, it’s like there isn’t tenderness in your arms and hands. The child feels that, and it continues to be upset. But if there’s real tenderness in your arms and hands and your body, then the child feels it, and starts to calm down. Right? We do the same thing with our emotions. So you have this fear. Now I’m going to say something that you probably think I’m completely insane. Can you hold the fear tenderly in your attention?

Student: Yes. I guess I have been. It’s just like just quieting it down, but it’s not getting solved.

Ken: Well, we aren’t about solving these things. Who said anything about solving anything? What happens when you hold the fear tenderly in attention?

Student: I guess, I just continue with my normal life.

Ken: Mm-hmm. But now you’re not running out of the fear, are you?

Student: No.

Ken: Would that help you to solve things in the future?

Student: I’d just like to not think about it altogether.

Ken: Well, for that, you’re going to have to go a little bit deeper. Now, this is a little trick question. I’ve asked this before. If you’re a feeling, what do you want above all else?

Student: Just content.

Ken: No, if you’re a feeling. Suppose you’re the feeling anger. What do you want?

Student: I don’t know.

Ken: What if you’re the feeling desire? Okay. My theory is, a feeling wants to be felt. Does that make sense to you? Okay. So, there’s the anger. And when you really feel the anger, then it’s happy. “Oh, good. I’ve been felt.” It goes away. So what about your fear here?

Student: Well, I just think it’s something that, I don’t know. It’s just, well, because my fear is dying.

Ken: Ah. How are you doing with dying? Okay. Your fear is dying. Go on.

Student: So I just feel like that’s something that I can’t really address, because it’s something I can’t help. And I don’t know anybody who’s experienced death to tell me about it.

Ken: Right. Well, this takes us in a slightly different direction. What I’d like to do is postpone that, see if we can come back to it a little bit later, because I want to complete this, what I started out. Okay? What’s it like for you to hold feelings tenderly in attention?

Student: Tenderly was to be able to find some relaxation in my body, because if it’s constricting, that’s not relaxed. I don’t feel like I can be tender if I’m constricted. So it was a matter of just like slack-jaw, like relaxing my throat as much as possible. And at that point, that’s when I was able to kind of touch the emotion a little more accurately. So, does that answer the question?

Ken: Yes, I think that’s great. So this is what I’d like to suggest as our next step. Think of holding this situation, and all of the emotions, and all of the reactions associated with it, tenderly in your attention. Let’s see what happens. Let’s just do that for a few moments. [Pause] Now, when we’re holding something tenderly, we’re not trying to do anything with it. We’re just there with it. We’re not trying to make it a certain way, or control it, or change it. We’re just with it, holding it tenderly in our attention.

So, “Breathing in, I experience this situation. Breathing out, I experience the situation.” [Pause] And to hold something tenderly in our attention, we cannot regard it as an enemy. So you may find, you probably will find, that in order to hold the situation in attention, tenderly, you’re going to have to let your heart soften. So let your heart soften with respect to this situation. See what difference that makes. “Breathing in, experience what happens in your body. Breathing out, experience what happens in your body.” All of the different emotions, experience them as you breathe in and out. And all of the stories—maybe some of the stories are very harsh, maybe some of the stories are cruel, maybe some of the stories are full of despair—experience them tenderly too. And as you experience the situation, tenderly, see if you can find some way to be relaxed. Or, at least to be calm. So you’re just experiencing the situation calmly.

And now I’ll go a step further and explore the possibility of relaxing in this situation. Now, as soon as we go into that relaxing, a couple of things can happen. One, we can feel helpless. Okay, that’s another feeling. It’s an experience. So you just experience it. The second thing that can happen is that we feel our body, and the emotions and everything, more completely or more intensely than we did before. So maybe we have to cycle back there and experience those—tenderly in attention. [Pause] Okay. Becky, what was your experience here?

Becky: I guess this time around, it’s more like a big shrug instead, like, oh well, it’s unfortunate, but okay.

Ken: It’s going to happen, and there’s not a lot I can do about it. Right? Yeah. Well, that’s actually the fifth step. The fifth step is that some kind of understanding arises, which changes our relationship with the situation. So yes, we’re all going to die. We don’t know when. This is one of the paradoxes of the human condition. And there’s not—unless we intentionally go out to kill ourselves—there’s not a lot we can do about it. Right? And that changes things. Okay. Very good. What was your experience?

Student: Well, my thought was, I procrastinate in my work. I’m sure I’m alone there. And, so it was acknowledging the concern and then still being like, it’s a concern. It’s not something I’m going to be at peace with, but I can be a friend, like, make my mind my friend, and still be able to be there without judging. And so I guess that was kind of the place.

Ken: So that that was a change of relationship too?

Student: Yeah. It didn’t go anywhere. I get this at this point. I like answers, and obviously in meditation, we’re not necessarily trying to find them, but they often do arise. So I’m waiting.

Ken: [Laughter] Okay. Yes?

Student: For me this part moved a little too fast.

Ken: Oh, well, you’re doing it very, very quickly. You’re quite right. When you’re doing this on your own, you can take much, much longer. And we’re just doing it quickly so that I can give you the taste of it. And hopefully it’s something that you can use on your own. But you’re quite right.

Student: The stuff that came from the last step was so elusive. It took a lot to stay with it, to keep it from sort of running away. And so as I move to the next step, then I realized it’s already running. I’m trying to go back and reclaim it again.

Ken: Yes. And so, on your own, you can do this more deeply and more thoroughly. And that would be very good. Thank you. Now, this is a way of practice. You seem a lot more awake now.

Student: I feel more awake.

Ken: Good. Well, I’m saying good. How is it for you?

Student: I feel like I was on the end of the spectrum of maximum running away during the exercise. But, I kind of thought, you might be watching me. [Laughter]

Ken: You can run, but you can’t hide.

Student: So I knew I was going to be doing a few more than one breath at a time, so it was a little more like, better shape up.

Ken: You’re not shaping up for me, you know? You’re shaping up for you.

Student: Definitely know that intellectually.

Ken: Go on.

Student: I’m here to learn to practice this, so there is that. Yeah.

Ken: So, you practice. And I do suggest you practice in this way, really short. So you start moving out of that habit of just letting yourself go to sleep or daydream—really short periods.

Student: Right.

Ken: All right. I’ve worked principally with these four or five people up here. Did anybody else find this helpful? Okay. So what I’d like to do is to just pass the microphone quickly around and just say one thing that you got out of it. We can start here.

Student: Well, I was kind of dealing with a different situation, in that, the situation I was working with, I didn’t really feel anything from it. And I think that’s where my feelings came from, is that I was hoping I would feel something from it. So, it was a little strange. But it was a good way to just kind of look at the situation and just sort of accept it as is. So that’s what I got out of it.

Student: I was able to let go of a control that I didn’t even know I was controlling. That was good.

Ken: That’s very good. Yes. Okay.

Student: The way I’d been dealing with the situation, I realized, had been with so much anger. And I was just like a brick. I felt like I was indestructible. And I realized that it was actually, like, devastating to actually deal with. I realized that there was a lot more sadness than I thought.

Student: I’d like to, being able to approach it like holding a child. That was good, as opposed to trying to kick it.

Ken: Yes, but when you kick it, it suddenly becomes this brick. Please, let’s continue. If you wish. Yeah. What did you get out of this?

Student: I learned that there was a kind of control that I was also doing. That if I were to not have that exerting, that there would be some real terror underneath it, some fear. And then beyond that, there might just be, you know, drama. But, because the thing was so deeply rooted to some, to a lot of different things, it was easy to run over to the other things where it’s working and not stay with the feeling.

Ken: Very good insight. Yes.

Student: I had a very similar reaction, actually, that he did, in terms of recognizing the control. And then, what other emotions are attached to that and acknowledge them. And then trying to find some sort of peace with it, in a sense.

Ken: A way to be at peace with it. Yeah.

Student: Yeah.

Ken: Okay, let’s just go down the back row here.

Student: It was interesting to know that I have fears that I wasn’t really, you know, if you think about death, or poverty, or rejection, it’s like, oh, okay. Well, a lot of those are inevitable. So just meditating on them lessened their … I guess they’re not so imposing when you can’t do anything about them.

Ken: Okay. You know, that’s a very stoic philosophy. You know, don’t worry about things you can’t control.

Student: It was interesting for me because each time you spoke about what people might be experiencing, that’s what I was experiencing. So in the beginning, my mind was just skipping anything to get away from the thought of my fear. And in the end, I was able to, not accept it, but to deal with tenderness for it. And I just felt the progression throughout the whole exercise and I appreciated it.

Ken: Thank you.

Student: I think for me, the experience was realizing I had summarized what my emotional experience was about the situation, and that was actually a complex web of emotional baggage all around.

Ken: Pandora’s box. Right?

Student: I found that once I held that fear tenderly, and rooted in the breath, it was very hard for it not to dissipate.

Student: I felt like I was able to soften the feelings of fear and anger, and work through the situation that I was focusing on. And be able to depersonalize it a little, not take it so personally when I’m faced with it again.

Ken: Okay. Behind you.

Student: For me, it was a bit of a flip flop. Like I would go between either not experiencing it at all, or it being very overpowering. I suppose I reached a certain amount of equanimity with it, but it still did feel a bit like a flip flop.

Ken: If you continue with the practice, continue doing this, you’ll find something is going to shift, and you won’t experience that flip flop. That’s what happens when we don’t have a sufficient capacity in attention to actually experience it. We are either overwhelmed by it, or we’re suppressing it, or running away from it in some way. But as you just keep doing this, you’ll find that your capacity in attention increases, and now you’ll actually start experiencing. And that will be a very different, the relationship with the experience will be very different then.

Student: Okay. Thanks.

Student: Are you sure you want me to say it? Because it didn’t work for me today?

Ken: Yes. That’s fine. It didn’t work for you.

Student: I had no problem sitting with it, relaxing in it. I don’t really ever have any manifestations physically when I’m sitting here. But when it was all over with, I still felt the same.

Ken: Okay. Thank you. And I think it’s valuable because not every meditation technique works for every person. It’s very important. We have to find the ones that work for us.

Student: I don’t think necessarily the technique itself in other situations I’ve done this, I’ve sat with you here before, but this one, it’s not. Not at all.

Student: Initially, the first or second step, my physical reaction was I immediately started crying. By the end, I feel like, there’s like a level of acceptance. Like I just need to go through in order to have everything just be where it should be.

Student: I’m kind of on his level, maybe, possibly. But, I loved your screaming child metaphor that you gave. And I will definitely take that image out of this whole sit. I like that a lot.

Ken: Someone behind you.

Student: Well, for me, usually I have a lot of mind chatter. But today, not much, because I think I’m fighting a cold. So it was just really easy to relax and let go.

Ken: Very good.

Student: It was pretty intensely emotional for me. It was a really good reminder. I’m very acutely aware of the fact that my story’s bolster emotions and they sort of create this web. I know that. I just don’t always know what to do with it. And I think also, for me, just that, that notion of the infant, I mean, I’ve heard it before and I know it, but it was a very good reminder. I’m not good at being my own mother in a lot of ways. So it was just good to be reminded of it.

Student: The whole process was one of of going from feeling hard, and cold, and a little dead, to softening, and warming, and opening, and feeling more alive. It was really nice.

Student: I got pretty clearly that equanimity is possible. You know, that it’s there, even if I’m not accessing it.

Ken: Okay.

Student: It’s interesting. The very last step is, it was a big thing that I brought up, and it’s actually how I’ve been handling it, which for me is really kind of the only way I’ve been able to process it, because treating it gently is the only way it’s going to dissipate. It was just very interesting. It was like, oh, okay, this is kind of how I’ve been doing it anyway, but it was going through a different way.

Ken: Very good. Do you want to add anything?

Student: I’d say I felt kind of relieved and frustrated at the same time. Relieved, in that when it was working, and I was imagining those feelings and kind of embracing it, it seemed a lot more productive than trying to run away or avoid those feelings. Frustrated, in that I get really distracted by sounds. And I’d hear a car go by, and I’d be out of it, and then I’d kind of kick myself and try to get back into it, and then feel a little bit of relief again, and then something else, you know.

Ken: You should come to the retreats we do up at Mount Baldy. We get to meditate with rock bands across the valley. Yeah, it’s part of practice. Yeah. Okay. Elena, do you want to add anything?

Elena: Sure. I was grieving mostly. I mean, the process is always good for me. It’s always a good reminder. And, yeah, ultimately, I don’t know what’s beyond that. I see new possibilities in a way, but I’m still grieving.

Ken: Okay, so a couple of points in wrapping up. A lot of people approach meditation as a place to recharge batteries and get calm, clear, and feel good, etc., etc. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s very, very helpful that way. But what I’ve tried to show you today is another possibility, and that is, that this is the way to actually practice living. You’re actually practicing living by experiencing what is arising, not trying to do anything about it immediately, but actually experiencing it.

One of the other things that I do some of is business consulting. And you have no idea how often I have to say, “You’re trying to implement a solution before you figured out what the problem is.” Something comes up, and they just start doing something, without taking a look at what the real problem is. And so, one of the things that you can use this practice for is actually experiencing what’s going on in you. And you may have a much better idea of what the real problem is. And we heard that from many people when they said their relationship with the situation changed. And someone went, “Oh, this is just something that’s the way it is. And, I can experience it and I don’t have to do anything about it.” That’s a very significant change in the relationship. And sometimes you will actually see, “Oh yes, there is something I can do.”

Ken: So that’s a that’s a second aspect to this, to meditation. It’s a way of practicing how to live and how to be in our lives. There’s a small danger here, and I want you to pay careful attention to this. If we start using our meditation practice to work through problems, that’s going to work for a while, and then it’s going to start to become a problem in our practice, because we’re going to be bringing this expectation of working through something.

Eventually, and I’m trying to give you just a head start on this right now, we’ll see that bringing that expectation of working through, creates a problem. It won’t hurt at all for you to explore just opening to the situation, without any expectation of working through it, or changing things, or figuring something out. That feels a little uncomfortable, very often, at the beginning, because there are a lot of things in our lives we’d just like to solve and get rid of so we don’t have to deal with them. But a lot of those things, we can’t. And we may discover some very, very deep feelings in ourselves about anger about, why doesn’t the world conform to my expectations more often? At least that’s one I have, maybe nobody else has that one.

And through this, we begin to come to another aspect of what meditation practice does. And it again, one can put it as, it’s a practice for living, but it’s about how to meet whatever arises with awareness and openness. So that we can actually experience it because it’s part of our life. And what we’re doing is practicing experiencing things completely. That may make very significant changes in our lives. But we can say that one way to approach this kind of practice is, how do I experience my life completely?

And in this sense, we’re very much like that NBA forward that I was telling you about. Who’s practicing, how do I shoot this shot from here? How do I shoot this shot from here? You can go through all of these different situations in your life and actually practice. How do I experience this completely? How do I experience this completely? How do I experience this completely? And then you may find that when you’re going about your day, something pops up. And you know, because it’s in your body, how to experience it completely. Because like that NBA player, when you’ve got two guys doing a double press on you, and you’ve got one second or less to take the shot, you can’t think, how am I going to take the shot? Do I remember? It has to be so in your body that it just happens.

And, that’s basically what we’re doing in the meditation practice. We are practicing this, and experiencing the stuff over and over again, so that when we encounter in our lives, it just happens. It’s not something that we have to remember, or think, now, what do I do here? Or, that we figured out what to do. We practice it so much, that it just happens. And that’s the real purpose of doing this practice. Okay. All right. I’ve gone five minutes over. I hope you’ll forgive me.

Now, a couple of things. I brought some books and CDs that I have, with a price list, if anybody’s interested. You’ll find one of the things I keep forgetting, I say go to my website, but I never tell you what the website is. It’s unfetteredmind.org. Unfettered Mind, that’s all you have to remember. And the third thing is, as I mentioned at the beginning, on Tuesday, I begin a five-week class at Against the Stream in Santa Monica. Now, the subject matter for that class is mahamudra, which is one of the direct awareness techniques in the Tibetan tradition.

Late in the 10th century in India, there was this completely weird mystic named Tilopa. He was a very strange guy, and his principal student was one of the top Buddhist scholars of India at that time, a guy called Naropa. And he put Naropa through all kinds of, I mean, really brutal hardship to get him out of his thinking mind, and into his body, and into his experience. And at the end of all of what are now known as the twelve hardships of Naropa, he came to some kind of understanding. And Tilopa sings this song to him.

So there are several translations. I’ve retranslated the song for this class. So we’re going to spend five weeks going over this song of mahamudra, and it’s very much along the lines we’ve been discussing here. How to be completely present in your life, how to experience everything that arises. So, if any of you are interested, that’s going to be starting at 7:30 on Tuesday evening.

Okay. I think that’s it for today. By way of closing, I’d just like to say, whatever goodness has come out of this for you, don’t think of holding it and just keeping it for yourself. Think of that goodness as spreading to everything that you experience in your life. And we can form the intention that good comes to that, for the whole world. So let’s just sit for a few moments with that sentiment.

Goodness comes from this work we’ve now done.
Let me not hold it just in me.
Let it spread to all that is known.
And awaken good throughout the world.