Can you define mahamudra?

Student: Ken, would you define mahamudra?

Ken: No. [Laughter] Do you want a definition?

Student: Well, yeah.

Ken: You would like a definition.

Student: I would like something I can give to other people when they say, “Where did you go? What did you do?” [Laughter] They’re not going to understand what I mean.

Ken: Oh, then you don’t want a definition. A definition is not going to help you at all for that, because the term mahamudra is usually translated as “the great seal”—the seal being a stamp. And what is the great seal? The great seal is emptiness. Everything is stamped with emptiness. So you have a choice.

“Where did you go?” “I went to study mahamudra and practice mahamudra.” “Oh, okay.”

Or, you can say, “I’m going to study the great seal.” It sounds like the Great Pumpkin. [Laughter]

Student: The big walrus. [Laughter]

Ken: It gets worse, you know. Okay, so just throw out all of that. [Unclear]

“Well, where’d you go?” “I went to study emptiness.” [Laughter]

Okay. So, that one doesn’t work either. So you can go further. “Well, what did you do there?” “Well, we meditated.” “What did you meditate on?” “Nothing.” [Laughter] So, you’re screwed already. [Laughter]

Student: Can you help me?

Ken: My suggestion: “I went to New Mexico and looked at the sky.” Now, people could probably relate to that, and you’re telling the absolute truth. And if they say, “Well, what did you get out of it?” then say, “Well, it was pretty good actually.”

Student: You said … “What do I say to them?”

Ken: “It was pretty good.” “Yeah, you look at the sky.”

Student: You can use the word “restful.” That works.

Ken: Yeah. [Laughter]

Student: You went to New Mexico to rest. [Laughter]

Ken: Is this helpful?

Student: Yes, it is.

Mahamudra and dzogchen: Is there a difference?

Guy: This is Guy from Los Angeles. Is there a simple way to understand the difference between mahamudra and dzogchen? And, how do you decide which of these teachings to practice?

Ken: Lisa’s here this evening. So, ah … this is Lisa. This is Miss Foreman. How do you decide what to call her? And does it make a difference?

Guy: You just answered the second part of the question.

Ken: And, in answering the second part of the question, what about the first? [Pause]

Guy: It’s somewhat of an academic question.

Ken: Well, yes, but people get tripped up by all kinds of things. I once asked Kalu Rinpoche for some teachings on dzogchen, and he happened to have a stack of pointing out instructions beside him. It was like that high. And they were a combination of mahamudra and dzogchen pointing out instructions. So he’d read one and he’d go, “Mmm, that sounds like mahamudra.” And then, he’d read another and go, “Mmm, that sounds like dzogchen.” And then, he would read another. And so after about 10 of these, I just said, “Okay, I got the point” and left.

Many years later, I was in Santa Fe doing a retreat with Nyoshul Khenpo—who’s died, but was one of the great dzogchen teachers—and in my first interview with him he said in Tibetan, “Mahamudra and dzogchen are two names for the same person. Do you understand?” And I said, “Yes.” And then he said, “Mahamudra and dzogchen are two names for the same person. Do you understand?” I said, “Yes.” So he said, “Mahamudra and dzogchen are two names for the same person. Do you understand?” And I said, “Yes.” I think he was making a point.

Now, people will say there are differences. There is some difference in formulation. There’s some differences in approach. But they’re more differences in emphasis than substance.

There’s another phrase in Tibetan, gcig shes kun grol (pron, chik shé kun drol). You understand one thing and everything is released. So it doesn’t matter whether it’s mahamudra or dzogchen. All of these are different names for the experience of mind as it is, mind nature, the fourth moment, original purity, perfection of wisdom, etc., etc. I mean, dozens of names. Co-emergent pristine awareness, to use one of the fancier ones.

It’s natural for people to become a bit proprietary about whatever they’re practicing. But it’s not particularly fruitful. [Pause] You’ll find people who will say there are differences, and one is better than the other, but following the advice of these two teachers that I just cited—and my own, very limited, experience—I don’t see any benefit coming from that.

Combining two rivers of practice

Announcer: This question is from Janet in Pacifica, California: “I have found resonance with a prayer that Ken translated and posted on the Unfettered Mind website called A Prayer Song to Mother Labkyi Drönma. Working with it seems to be a powerful way to increase feelings of devotion and openness. When I read the next to the last stanza, I come to a feeling of total blankness. The stanza reads:”

To keep practice, outlook and activity clean.
And to protect your commitments as you do your eyes
Combine the two rivers, the Kadampa and the Mahamudra.

A Prayer Song to Mother Labkyi Drönma


“This seems like a key instruction, but I don’t know what to do with it. What is pointed to by saying practitioners should combine the two rivers? What aspects of the Kadampa teaching should be joined with the mahamudra practices? Should I just sit in awareness with this blankness?”

Ken: Well, I think you can do better than sitting in awareness with the blankness. Kadampa and mahamudra. The Kadampa tradition originated in Tibet with Atiśha, an Indian master who came in the 11th century and established a monastic tradition which became known as the Kadampa, and which lasted until the 13th or 14th centuries, somewhere around there. And, it was a monastic tradition, and it also placed a strong emphasis on scholarship or a scholastic approach—studying the canonical texts and becoming expert in those, and using that expert knowledge as a basis for practice. The mahamudra tradition that Machik is referring to here comes from the Indian mahasiddhas, principally Tilopa and Naropa.And it’s the tradition of direct awareness. Direct awareness that one opens to through the power of faith and devotion. [A Prayer Song to Mother Labkyi Drönma is a form of guru yoga written by Karma Chagmé. It is about Machik Labdron.]

When she talks about combining these two rivers, you have, on the one hand, the monastic discipline of vows about actions, the basis of which are the five vows: not to kill, not to steal, not to lie, not to have sexual intercourse if you’re a monk or to be chaste if you’re a lay person, and not to take intoxicants. And those five vows were ways of avoiding harming others, creating an environment for yourself in which practice could be fruitful. And those were amplified, and developed into the 253 vows of the monastic ordination, but those five ones that I named form the core. So that’s how you keep your body and speech clear, so you aren’t doing anything which causes regret, and hence, disturbance in the mind.

Mahamudra tradition, as I said, is concerned with direct awareness. And that direct awareness, one opens to it by developing very strong devotion and faith in one’s teacher, and then imagining or feeling that your mind and the teacher’s mind join together, just like water being poured into water. So this is a very strong sense of inspiration and energy, and it keeps the mind very, very clear. So with the monastic ordination taking care of the activity and how you speak and so forth, and acts in the world, and the mahamudra tradition giving inspiration and energy and opening your heart through devotion, then this created a fertile ground for the practice and outlook and activity to manifest fully and completely. So that’s what I think this prayer is saying.

Now, translating that formal advice into present day circumstances, I think we can refer to a very old verse that goes back to the time of the Buddha, “Cease to do evil, learn to do good, train your own mind–these are the Buddha’s teachings.” In order to practice, and practice fruitfully, we need to refrain from actions which harm others, and that’s the intent of the monastic ordination. And it should be the intent in our lives that we refrain from actions which cause harm or suffering for others, to the extent that that’s possible for us.

“Learn to do good” is developing a positive, open attitude, a caring attitude, towards all people, beginning with those close to us, but really extending it through love and compassion to all people, to all beings, so that good naturally flows in our lives. To help us do both of those things, of course, it’s necessary to tame or train our own mind. Right now, we are confused by the thoughts and emotions that arise. We take them as real when they’re not real. We act on them when we don’t need to act on them. And through the cultivation of faith and devotion, we come to see things much, much more clearly. We come to know thoughts as thoughts. We come to know emotions as emotions. And when we know that what arises in our mind is simply an arising in our mind, then we can say that we have trained our mind, or we can equally say we’ve trained our heart. That is, it’s open, but we are not confused by what arises. In other words, we’re able to rest in the clear knowing which is not subject to the vicissitudes of life. And thus our actions become more precise and clear, and we struggle less, and we create less struggle for others around us.

Essential practice points


Announcer: Tamara in North Dakota asks, “I’m 87 years old and my ability to travel to receive teachings is limited, but I can listen to CDs and I can get help if I were to use the computer. With these limitations, can you help me understand how to practice either dzogchen, mahamudra, or vipassana, or both? I’ve attended five or six dzogchen mahaudra retreats with Tibetan teachers, but still don’t know how to practice. So I revert to vipassana in which I have formal training from Spirit Rock. Also, I’ve received pointing out instructions, I’ve attended two of your retreats, and I have a CD of bardo teachings that I could listen to. Earlier in my training, I was told that I had a rigpa experience accompanied by an anxiety attack, probably because I was alone and without support.”

Ken: [Pause] Quite often when people have an experience of awareness that is out of the ordinary, then fear and disorientation arise. And that not infrequently prevents the experience from being assimilated or built on in a productive way.

You ask about practicing dzogchen, mahamudra, vipassana or both. Well, I can’t really tell you how to practice vipassana, it’s not something in which I have been trained.

Dzogchen and mahamudra are two of the Tibetan traditions teaching some practices based on direct awareness. And one can listen to all kinds of instructions and teachings on these practices, but the essential points come down to … well, there are different formulations, but let me give you two.

Mahamudra practice points


First is from the mahamudra tradition: no distraction, no control, no work. So when you’re doing meditation, or other times during the day, just let body, mind and heart rest. As soon as you do that, you’ll probably find that your experience becomes clear and vivid. It may not last for very long. That doesn’t matter. But it’s that clear, open experience. Just rest there. Don’t try to make anything happen. Don’t try to control your experience. And don’t work at anything. You’re not trying to accomplish or get anywhere. After a moment or two, or maybe a little bit longer, that clear open experience may dissipate. Then you just do the same thing again. Let body, mind and heart rest. Then do this again and again for short periods, gradually building up a familiarity with clear, open experience. So that’s in many respects, the essence of mahamudra practice. As you’re able to rest in that clear, open way of experiencing things, you’ll find that a looking aspect emerges quite naturally. So you find yourself looking in the resting, and resting in the looking until the resting and looking become almost, well, become the same. And then you just let that mature.

Dzogchen practice points


Then moving to dzogchen, I’ll give you an instruction which was given to me by Nyoshul Khenpo. “Crack the egg of ignorance, cut the web of existence, open awareness like the sky.” “Crack the egg of ignorance” means just open to what is here right now. And it happens in an instant. And that’s very similar to the instruction that I suggested for the mahamudra. As you gain familiarity with that, every time you find yourself caught up in thoughts and ideas about things, then just come back to that clear, open knowing. That’s what “cut the web of existence” means. As you become more and more familiar with this, and you begin to be able to rest in that experience, then you find that awareness opens, like the sky. And now you just rest in that open awareness.

So this is very, very brief, and there’s a lot more material up on the website, which can help you with this, if you can have somebody show you. If you go to the translations section, particularly, on the Unfettered Mind website, there’s a lot of more detailed teaching on exactly these two subjects. And I hope this is some help to you.